The good ship "Athena"

Cyrus · #1 10-25-2005, 03:57 AM

Someone wrote in another thread: [ QUOTE ]
"I" am not the same person "I" was two years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is an oldie but a goodie:

There was a ship called "Athena", in ancient Greece. Wooden ship, with sails, oars, the works.

At some point, the main sail broke and had to be replaced. The owner took it ashore, where the man who owned the shipyard replaced it. It took some work but the work was done and the ship went on its way again, with a new main sail.

The shipyard had a habit of never throwing away anything, so they kept the old main sail and in fact repaired it and stored it.

After a couple of months, the "Athena" went to the yard again, this time to replace its oars. The shipyard fitted it with new oars and sent it on its way. And also kept the old oars.

You can tell where this is leading: After a year, the "Athena" had discarded every single item, down to the wooden plaque with the ship's name on it, and replaced it with an exact-looking, brand new item. The ship was sailing the seas with lickety-spit, brand new items, a glorious sight.

And, of course, the shipyard kept all the damaged, discarded stuff - and repaired it.

One day, the shipyard onwer put his men to work and they assembled a ship out of all the discarded items of the "Athena". In a short time, they had a complete ship in their hands, with a wooden plaque on it saying "Athena" even.

Which they put to sea.

..The question is: Which ship is the "Athena" ?

#2 10-25-2005, 04:43 AM

They are both alive and dead at the same time...... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

#3 10-25-2005, 05:01 AM

Replace the ship with a Classic show car. When the guy replaces every single piece of the car, is it still a classic? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

tek · #4 10-25-2005, 01:58 PM

Is it just the hull that is the boat or is the original body the actual car? Good questions.

However, the best question has been asked by science fiction writers. If someone gets new artificial robotic legs, hips, knees, lungs, etc when are they not the same person? Is it just the brain that is us? (And the notional soul, whereever that is?)

#5 10-25-2005, 02:19 PM

Does Athena have a soul? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

David Sklansky · #6 10-25-2005, 11:47 PM

"However, the best question has been asked by science fiction writers. If someone gets new artificial robotic legs, hips, knees, lungs, etc when are they not the same person? Is it just the brain that is us? (And the notional soul, whereever that is?)"

Of course that would still be you. The tough question is whether even a different brain could still be you.

tek · #7 10-26-2005, 09:18 AM

What if someone has alzheimers? Are they still the same person?

mackthefork · #8 10-26-2005, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What if someone has alzheimers? Are they still the same person?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like it or not, no they aren't. They never really become another person, but they do stop being the person they used to be at some point.

Mack

#9 10-26-2005, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if someone has alzheimers? Are they still the same person?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like it or not, no they aren't. They never really become another person, but they do stop being the person they used to be at some point.

[/ QUOTE ]

So... they aren't a another (different) person, but they are no longer the same person. Hmmm... So, they aren't a person? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

mackthefork · #10 10-26-2005, 11:29 AM

They are strangers to people they knew for a life-time, a different person every day, not pleasant for anyone involved. Just as horrible if not worse for the family as the person who is sick, would you like to visit a person who had no idea who you were, and never would, I know I wouldn't, but they have to.

Mack