20-40 Party, 5-handed KQs

[Michael Davis]

5-handed, opponent openraises from CO and I threebet with KQh.

I haven't been at the table long, and I have no stats on this opponent, but he seems very aggressive. Earlier he threebet with a pair of sixes on the turn, but it was good, and his opponent turned out to be a semimaniac, so I'm not sure that says much about this guy.

Anyways, this is probably a standard situation, but I think I'm getting it wrong everytime, so somebody answer with authority and tell me the right play.

Flop is Q85 with two clubs and I lead into him, he calls.

Turn is an offsuit Ace.

Is this decision even close?

-Michael

[stoxtrader]

i would check this turn everytime.

[Michael Davis]

After you check the turn, he bets. Do you call his bet planning on calling a river bet? Or call planning on folding to a river bet?

He checks behind. Do you bet the river, or do you check-call there hoping to induce a bluff or a bet from something like an 8 and because he might still have an ace?

-Michael

[wrto4556]

if he checks behind its most likely an easy value bet on the river. im not sure how to react to a river raise, though.
If i check and he bets i usually call down.

[mike l.]

a turn check gains more here than a turn raise.

im going to get crucified for this but i hate a default turn bet-fold here less and less the more the game changes and the tighter i play.

but it sounds like this guy is aggro and perceptive thus tying your hands and making check-call to showdown the optimal play.

there i took a stab at it. i think im wrong. i wonder if someone will post something convincing to explain why im wrong.

[rmarotti]

I know you don't know me, but I really like this thread and think the situation is interesting. As I'm moving up in limits I struggle with it constantly. I hope some of the expert posters can shed some of their pokah wisdom here.

[Michael Davis]

"I know you don't know me"

Even if I couldn't pick you out of a lineup this wouldn't be true.

-Michael

[rmarotti]

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] MD.

FWIW, I usually c/call this down and get shown the ace more than I want to be shown it.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
After you check the turn, he bets. Do you call his bet planning on calling a river bet? Or call planning on folding to a river bet?

He checks behind. Do you bet the river, or do you check-call there hoping to induce a bluff or a bet from something like an 8 and because he might still have an ace?

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

once you check the turn, against all but the most passive players, you want to see a showdown for 0-2 bets total.

definitely call a turn bet because you are ahead here some of the time, plus you often have 5 outs most of the time. the chances of these two things EASILY justify the odds you are getting to call a turn bet.

the river involves a bit more thought. If turn went check/check against a player on the passive side I would value bet more because I feel better about folding to a raise. conversely, a player on the aggressive side you will be more successful inducing a bluff, and you don't feel as good about folding to a raise if you lead. so the river, generally speaking i would lead vs passive and check vs an aggressive, depending on turn action of course. I woudl definitely check the river against everyone if money went in on the turn. Possibly fold vs a passive unimproved. possibly.

the reason there is no "good" or "standard" answer in this situation is because it is a borderline situation, you are good enough to know the correct play i dare say in every situation where "correct" is relatively clear. so i guess im trying to say is, don't sweat it. if you play it moderately correctly, and try to adjust for the times you have a read, that is as good as you can get here i think.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I usually c/call this down and get shown the ace more than I want to be shown it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Logically speaking, doesn't this simply mean that you have seen an ace at least once?

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