Plan B

[Andy B]

This is from later on in the KotZ tournament.

Tournament - 7 Card Stud High-Low - Level VII (200/400), Ante 25, Bring-In 50 (hand converter)

Seat 1: 2,750
Hero: 4,155
Seat 4: 6,288
Seat 5: 2,322
Seat 6: 2,722
Seat 8: 5,951

3rd Street - (0.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (6.75 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.88 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (10.88 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises 125 to 1325 and is all-in
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls___calls

River - (20.81 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: 22.81 BB

[DeadMoneyOC]

This looks* like a pretty spot on sixth. I would suspect that since you have 3 fours in your hand that seat 1 does not have a straight. You also had an sick draw. I would imagine the other guy was overplaying a big pair. I think it looks pretty good. I certainly cant find a fold, and I would imagine your high is good most of the time to make the check-raise on 6th and the bet on 7th pretty mandatory.

[PoorLawyer]

why not put in a raise anywhere? 5th perhaps when it looks like you made a sweet low and the other guy made a rough 8? You had such a strong draw here it seems a shame not to get more money in the pot. I am not a big stud 8 player though so I could be way off...

[Ray Zee]

on 4th you want to knock out the guy with the 7s. he raised going in so may have an overpair here. you want to play head up with the other guy. having it three handed takes away alot of your chances for getting half if you dont scoop. a raise on 4th should get him out. my guess is he hit three jacks on you and cost you the whole shebang or the high half which in reality is the worst thing as your early raise was the right play. think about that.

[Andy B]

Damn you're good.

[djr]

[ QUOTE ]
Damn you're good.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...that is why we bought his books isn't it?

[Andy B]

I'm pretty sure I bought Ray's book about the same time that I bought Ken Warren's first book and Stewart Wolpin's abortive mess. So I bought his book because I was buying about every poker book I could find. I am now only marginally more selective (I have about 70 total).

[Andy B]

The guy with the Seven in the door did, in fact, have pocket Jacks and split with the low hand. I had been in good shape until this point, very good shape early on, and this more or less crippled me. I steamed off the rest of my chips in relatively short order.

I am not entirely sold on the fourth-street raise. First off, I don't even know that it would knock this guy out. It should, of course, but this tournament was not filled with regular stud/8 players. I was on three different tables, and at any one of them, I don't think there was more than one handle I recognized. Now I realize that some people post under different handles than the ones that they use on Stars, and if I were at all serious about it, I probably would too. But there were people asking rules questions and the like. So I think it's reasonable to assume that this guy doesn't know how to play, and people who don't know how to play are going to over-value a pair of Jacks. Case in point, I muck his hand without a second thought on third street, what with an Ace, a King, and several good low cards behind me. Jacks is a pretty strong hand in hold'em. I've certainly played against people who won't toss a pair of Jacks just because A5 bets and 23 raises.

Of course, if he won't be knocked out, then I really have no reason not to raise. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I also question whether I want to knock him out. If I thought that the Ace were on a low draw, I think that would make a lot of sense, although I must admit that that's not what I usually do. I think that when he makes it two bets, however, it's very likely that he has split Aces, or perhaps a big pocket pair. If he has Aces, I have only five outs to the straight, and my prospects for backing into high some other way are pretty dim. If he were merely on a worse low draw, I could potentially win high by catching a small pair.

These are some numbers from twodimes if I keep him in:

ks 7h 6h dead
4s 5d 2d 3h 0.489
5s Ac 8d Ah 0.341
7s Jc Jd Th 0.170

and if I knock him out:

ks 7h 6h th 7s jc jd dead
4s 5d 2d 3h 0.545
5s Ac 8d Ah 0.455

I make a small gain in pot equity, but I lose the chance to milk this guy later in the hand. I'm not sure this trade-off is worth it.

[Bartholow]

In those cases where we are both currently ahead and trying to knock people out, it's often the case that you are actually making it correct for someone to fold, but are also happy if they incorrectly call (due to the exceptions of FTOP in multiway pots). I think this is one of those cases. Or, looking at it from the other side, this is a good place to NOT slowplay because you probably get action anyway, which is generally much better.