A cry for 6-max help

[gulebjorn]

Since I've been running bad lately, and the A-team is too old to help me out, I'm turning to small stakes.

I've lost about 4 buyins at $50NL in the last week. Most if it was due to some bad luck: two buyins with aces , one with AK , but by now I know enough about this game to confirm that I'm also a bit lost.

This bad run has occured at the 6-max tables, and I don't have much experience with it. I'm comfortable playing full ring up to $100NL, and really shorthanded up to $50NL. But 6-max is causing me trouble. I'm trying to find a balance between playing tight as in full ring and playing in highest gear as I do headsup.

But so far, my efforts have gone unrewarded. When I tighten up, I get run over by LAGs (not even good ones). When I loosen up, I win a lot more pots, but I can't turn a profit because I lose it all again when I run into a solid hand.

It's probably more complicated than that, but I'm just trying to give you an impression of what I think the problem is. Anyway, since you guys keep posting that 6-max is more fun, more profitable and a lot less boring than full ring, I'd like to give it a serious try.

I think Fimbulwinter has once posted his preflop strategy for 6-max, but I've lost the link. Anyone else have this? Any other links to good 6-max strategy threads would also be greatly appreciated. (I have the links to "Deep Stacks, Implied Odds, Preflop Play and The State of SSNL", "My 25NL Adventure/Pilgrimage", and GrunchCan's favorite NL threads, but thanks anyway).

I've opened a new account at Empire with 1K in it, I'm gonna get PT and start looking into my play. Would Empire's $50NL 6-max be a good place to start or do you recommend dropping down to $25?

Thanks for the help.

sry for the partial hijack, but would you by chance post the aforementioned links you already have?

Im so new to this site, and nothing is as infuriating as all the old hands chuckling over a golden thread that I CANT FIND!!!!

also, FWIW I had the EXACT same problem, I solved it by playing SNG's... but I want back in, so I'll be eagerly awaiting these answers.

also, I read in some other post that there's a section of the "Yao" (I think) book that covers 6-max pf.

[gulebjorn]

All those links are in this thread.

I think Yao's book is limit only. Not sure though. Doesn't matter, I have enough books to read. I want threads and reply's! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Nato76]

I wanted to bump this thread because I am in a similar situation as you and would like some 6max info.

[phillydilly]

This is going to be extremely general, but i'll throw it out there...

A lot of the advice i this board is very aggressive, which it should be. And as we all know, 6 max is more aggressive than full ring. All this is good and correct. But often it can go to far. Reading your post about being in very high gear headsup and trying to find a balance makes me thing you may be playing too aggressive.

When i started 6 max, i had this problem. "he bet preflop, the board is junk, so my 55 might be good, i better raise" kind of mentality. Remember, at NL25 and NL50, people will be throwing money at you. There's no need to risk 10 to win a 2 pot, be aggressive, but wait for the situation to be aggressive.

I've seen some advice on here lately that i really like. This isn't verbatim but it had to do with a possible river bluff, it went something like
bet 1/3 pot, this way you're risking little, and only have to be right less than hafl the time to justify it.
This is good aggressive advice. Decent probablity of success, low risk, and doesn't have to work all that often.

But i think the "its No limit, and its 6 max" mentality can affect those new to it, and they just start betting and raising everything. no checking folding calling.

that being said, this may not be your problem at all, but based on what you said about high gear headsup, it could be some of it. Aggression is key to poker, but it has to be timed, applied, controlled aggression.
just some thoughts

[DoomSlice]

Heh, I've dropped 4 buyins in one session of 6-max, playing extremely aggressively. I've also made 8 buyins in one session playing the exact same way.

The more risks you take, the higher your variance will be, even if your long term expectation is higher (though taking bad risks may very well lower it).

That being said, it's a lot "easier" to play low-risk, controlled variance poker. The best advice I can give is to tighten up to raises and loosen up when folded to in late position.

[gulebjorn]

Yeah, whenever I tried 6-max, I was always running very hot or cold. Can't seem to find a way in between? Is it supposed to be like that? At first, I blamed variance too, but I started thinking that couldn't be right...

Anyway, more accurate logs and more logged hands should enable me to keep track of any winning/losing tendencies.

[wtfsvi]

4 buyins is nothing. If it's bad luck, you have nothing to worry about. I dropped 6 buyins yesterday, and I'm not worried at all. It feels just fine. (I'm also up 3 buyins this far after 120 hands today.) Variance is just a little higher than at full ring.

If you're just starting out in 6max, don't be too loose is my advice. Stay pretty close to the starting hand requirements you use for full ring until you feel comfortable.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Be VERY careful with Fim's starting hand chart. That one's not for the beginner. The 50s should be a fine place to start. They play very much like the 25s. If you really feel like a newbie, though, no shame in taking a few orbits at the 25s. Basically it plays exactly like full ring, but the first four EP guys have folded. So UTG = MP and then you're good to go. Don't go too LAG. And don't become a calling station postflop. Yes, aggression SHOULD go up postflop because hands become more marginal and there should be more folding equity. BUT YOUR OPPONENTS DO NOT MAKE THIS ADJUSTMENT. They also don't fold anything. Therefore, it is correct for you to both lay down marginal hands easily because they don't raise with marginal hands (even though they should in many cases) and you should also not attempt bluffs because they don't lay down marginal hands (even though they should in many cases). Basically start out by pseudo-nut peddling it and then once you get a good feel open it up a bit. Not really nut peddling like set mining full ring, but pseudo-nut peddling like not continuing past the flop without at least top pair or a legit draw.

Let me just say that whenever you FEEL you are getting run over by LAG's, you are not necessarily getting run over by LAG's... a good % of the time, you are simply getting cold-decked. Watch Live@Bike --- it is extremely useful to watch guys get cold-decked but THEY think they are getting run over by guys who are bluffing.

You need to loosen up when facing a true LAG but many times, a guy who looks like a LAG is just catching the deck and this improves their game as others start to fear them and now maybe he gets a little more LAG'gy... but he continues to make hands to go along with a few well-timed bluffs. This is not a true LAG, IMO... its a guy getting hit with a hot deck... avoid challenging this guy with fancy bluffs just because he LOOKS like a LAG right now...

Some days, you wait patiently and every time you hit a flop well --- a brutal turn card comes... Other days, it just seems so easy. You hit turn cards -- draws turn into monsters, donkeys bluff their chips off to you, you are on the GOOD side of monster over monster etc...

Stay mentally tough... it is tempting to think you are always getting run over but many times, this just isn't the case. You must stand up to true LAG's or you will get run over... but many times, you are not getting run over by a LAG -- you are just getting cold-decked...

the obvious lesson is to monitor you opposition closely... differentiate true LAGS from simple AGS -- btw, true LAG's will eventually go bust when the cold-deck hits them and then they tilt off extra buy-ins to you...