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#1
07-15-2005, 01:41 PM
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JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
Party Poker (6 max, 5 handed) converter
villain is TAG thats a little on the tight side Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero raises, everyone folds except SB (villain) who calls. Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls. Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB bets, Hero raises... my reasoning for the turn raise is to try to get a free showdown on the river, and also charge SB if he's on a draw. i wouldve folded to a 3bet, and planned to fold to a river bet UI. my question is is this a good spot for this move? should we give credit to villain's flop CR for a Q? does anyone fold this turn? i didnt want to fold and thought that raising was the best way to continue the hand. also, does anyone like any different lines for the flop? 
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#2
07-15-2005, 01:45 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
This is a great spot to do it. SB's c/r could be any high club, or even a 4/5 that thinks he's charging you for your draw. If a non-club hits the river, I might even be tempted to value bet but most likely just shut down after the turn raise.
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#3
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
I like this line. If SB checks a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river I would bet too. Am I nuts?
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#4
07-15-2005, 02:45 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker (6 max, 5 handed) converter villain is TAG thats a little on the tight side Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero raises, everyone folds except SB (villain) who calls. Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls. Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> SB bets, Hero raises... my reasoning for the turn raise is to try to get a free showdown on the river, and also charge SB if he's on a draw. i wouldve folded to a 3bet, and planned to fold to a river bet UI. my question is is this a good spot for this move? should we give credit to villain's flop CR for a Q? does anyone fold this turn? i didnt want to fold and thought that raising was the best way to continue the hand. also, does anyone like any different lines for the flop? [/ QUOTE ] I really like this line, you have an easy fold to a 3-bet. Also, if a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits on the river and Villain checks to me, I am very likely to value bet. Since he called your UTG raise from the SB, if he has a Q, he probably has a decent kicker; thus, he would value bet a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river with a Q. In other words, if he checks a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river, he most likely does not have a Q and YHIG.
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#5
07-15-2005, 03:17 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
not bad, I assume you are raising for a free SD. A lot of the times though, the flop c/r just means a weak Q, especially in 3/6. What level is this, BTW?
Edit: Sometimes trickier TAGs like to disguise strong hands with a flop c/r to induce further aggression.
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#6
07-15-2005, 03:26 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
[ QUOTE ]
I like this line. If SB checks a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river I would bet too. Am I nuts? [/ QUOTE ] Maybe. Would you call a 5 here as SB? You'd have to run into a boisterous 99 or something to get any value, IMO. Anyway, turn raise/fold is good. River brick - do you value bet? (I don't, but I miss some of these occassionally)
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#7
07-15-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I like this line. If SB checks a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river I would bet too. Am I nuts? [/ QUOTE ] Maybe. Would you call a 5 here as SB? You'd have to run into a boisterous 99 or something to get any value, IMO. Anyway, turn raise/fold is good. River brick - do you value bet? (I don't, but I miss some of these occassionally) [/ QUOTE ] I mean as part bluff and part slim value bet
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#8
07-15-2005, 03:43 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
I don't mind the turn raise at all, but beware of folding to a 3-bet. While correct most of the time, some players may 3-bet you here with something like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]...know your opponent. The other thing is, he's not going to fold a queen to a raise here, so accept that.
Jeff
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#9
07-15-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
my bad, it was 10/20
he called my turn raise. given his taggish stats i decided to give him credit for a weak Q. i figured 10 10 or 99 might 3bet preflop. we ended up checking through a blank river, and he showed AQ(!) to win.
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#10
07-15-2005, 04:07 PM
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Re: JJ, turn raise good or spewing?
[ QUOTE ]
Since he called your UTG raise from the SB, if he has a Q, he probably has a decent kicker; thus, he would value bet a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river with a Q. In other words, if he checks a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river, he most likely does not have a Q and YHIG. [/ QUOTE ] I completely disagree with this, after you raise the turn, most all opponents are not going to value donk bet a non club river with a just a Q, good kicker or no.
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