revolutionary for me,,,i make a read and actually act on it

climber · #1 10-08-2005, 02:00 AM

In like my 9 billionth attempt to get my went to showdown under 40% I'ven been trying a new thing where I actaully act on the reads I make. Earlier in my session, I was mid-hand and told myself, "Ok, lead the trun if you are raised, your done with the hand." I bet was raised, thought for a second, made some lame excuse to myself and called down as usual. I lost, as I knew I would.

This hand came up a few minutes later.

UTG is 35/0/0 over 50 hands.
SB is 21/8/2 over hundreds of hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB raises, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, SB raises, Hero folds, CO calls.

River: (12 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Whether or not you like my play, I love it. I actully had the willpower to act on my read. SB tabled 77 for the boat.

Surfbullet · #2 10-08-2005, 02:23 AM

Hey climber,

I wouldn't raise this pf. the limper isn't very loose - we will be dominated by many of his hands, since he doesn't raise any we can't rule out AT-esque stuff. Also, getting CC'd here by a loose player behind us makes this even tougher - i'd limp along if I were to play and encourage a family pot, but usually fold at 10/20. 3/6 a limp is okay I think.

Now, if you know SB to be a solid TAG we can put him on a set, overpair (88 etc) , maybe 78? I dunno. I'm not sure where in the hand you decided he was on a set, but i'd love to hear more about it.

One thing - action on one's reads (in terms of hand ranges, etc) is vitally important. I hate saying to myself "okay raise, fold if 3bet - he's passive." then calling the 3bet for whatever dumb reason. It's critical to follow through on a plan.

With that set, putting a TAG squarely on a set is a very tight read and I'd discourage you from making such specific assumptions, especially in big pots.

Surf

TwoNiner · #3 10-08-2005, 02:24 AM

Wish the river would have been 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Bet-Fold. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

climber · #4 10-08-2005, 02:38 AM

Yeah I agree about the preflop play for all the reasons you stated. I was 6-tabling at the time and I'm not sure what happened there I think I thought I was UTG or something. I only threw in UTG's stats as I made the post to try to justify the questionable/wrong play and let people focus on the turn action.

Yeah I agree that puttin a guy on a set is very dangerous. His flop c/r was when i felt probably 80% sure he had a set.
What else does he call two with from the small blind with only a 21% VP$IP? The turn action clinched it for me and so I folded the nut flush draw.

The reason I liked this hand is that for a long time I have been just always calling down in situations like this and not giving due consideration to all the information being presented to me. The biggest thing for me recently has been thinking about who is making the move and if they seem like a thinking player...why are they making this particular move against me? I, like most of us here am very aggressive. At a level like 3/6 a turn raise from a 21/8 player when I have raised preflop, and led or c/red every street means my top pair is no good and I will start making a lot more money when I actaully start regularly taking these factors into consideration.

climber · #5 10-08-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wish the river would have been 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Bet-Fold. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

bet-fold what? I'm not even in the hand any more.

TwoNiner · #6 10-08-2005, 02:49 AM

Nah, I was being a dick talking about the other players on the river so you'd have to stew over your fold.

I like your fold, just for the sheer carnage that will ensue if he has the boat or hits it on the river while we hit our flush. We easily have the odds to chase but you gotta discount a bunch for this situation. The double checkraise definitely seems like(my hand just got bigger and deserves something special) I like the fold, but I'm weak tighter than most here.

climber · #7 10-08-2005, 02:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Now, if you know SB to be a solid TAG we can put him on a set, overpair (88 etc) , maybe 78? I dunno. I'm not sure where in the hand you decided he was on a set, but i'd love to hear more about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, now you got me thinking more... what about an overpair? I think when you mention it it sounds totally plausible to me but when I was palyng the hand it really didn't seem possible at all. I'm tryign to figure out why that could be so I'm thinking out loud here.

This guy seemed to me to be the very straightforward "hasn't yet made the transition from full ring yet" type of player. Prob a slight loser at this point. He tended to lead out with his good hands and call down a lot when raised but still value bet if checked to later.

I guess QQ-AA I'd see a 3-bet from him preflop. That leaves 88-JJ as the trouble hands. I guess I don't see this guy as tricky enough to c/r with these medium overpairs, especially once the turn pairs. I also can't see 78 out of him for 2 bets preflop.

climber · #8 10-08-2005, 03:19 PM

bump...i posted this late last night but was curious if there were anymore thoughts? agree or disagree with my thoguht process?

Surfbullet · #9 10-08-2005, 03:55 PM

I dunno, I think it's tough to pin him on EXACTLY 77. If, as you say, he's too tight to have 22/78s, then I think there's a good shot he's got something like TT or 88 enough times to make chasing your huge draw profitable.

Ed miller had a post a few years ago in Small Stakes (it might be on Illunious' favorite threads post, not sure) about not folding strong draws (like the nut flush) in a big pot even though you might be drawing dead sometimes. The nut flush is such a strong draw in a pot like this that you have enough equity to offset the rare time you are drawing dead.

As I said previously, I like the general tone of the post - encouraging one to follow one's reads. I'm certainly guilty of dismissing my reads / hand ranges / plans too often.

Surf

purnell · #10 10-08-2005, 04:25 PM

"Ed Miller had a post..."

Just happened to have it handy.