Very Frustrating situation with Empire

[Apathy]

During the latest party and skins crash a week or so ago I had eight 215s running, 4 on empire and 4 on eurobet. I was disconnected on three of my empire games with the fourth still running.

I logged out of empire to try to log back in and restore connectivity since that sometimes works but instead I was unable to log back in and consequently got blinded off in all four tournaments.

They refunded the three that were having problems but won't even acknowledge the fourth one is their fault.

Below are the email correspondensces thus far, what do you think I should do and where can I take this so that people will listen?

I am a royalflush club member at empire and have given them well over $20k in rake in the last 4-5 months.

I have edited the emails for readability only, the ones I sent appear in bold. They appear in reverse order so start at the bottom.

Thank You,

Apathy


--------------------------------------------------------

Dear xxx,

Thank you for contacting us.

We do understand your concern regarding the disconnection during the tournament.
We would like to inform you that Disconnection could be due to various reasons.

To explain to you in full details let us start from the basic level of how
tables connect from the Players Internet Service Provider (ISP) to our Game
Servers. Every time you connect to the main lobby it is through a network of
servers on the Internet. These network connections or routes or paths are
decided by your ISP. When you connect to the tables, each table is again
connected to our Game Servers through individual sets of network connections on
the Internet. Each of these network connections has multiple intermediate
servers on the network. Each of these servers is handling not only your
connection, but also various other connections on the Internet that happen to
take a route on which the server lies. This puts a lot of load on these
intermediate servers. Some of the servers can handle a lot of load and are very
stable but some of them are not. If it is a weak server, then it will randomly
select a connection passing through it and disconnect the
subscriber. This is why Players face a sudden disconnection on a table even
though they are still able to browse through the Internet or even play on
another table.

I fully understand that it is not a problem from your end. However, if there is
a weak server on the network connection, that your ISP has chosen to connect to
our Game Servers, then it is quite possible that you might get disconnected from
a table.

I hope the above explanation was up to your satisfaction.


Anand
Poker Customer Care

--Original Message--
From: xxx@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-07-26 14:41
To: info@empirepoker.com
Subject: RE: Reply From EmpirePoker. [#3317660]

Ok, I will attempt to explain this one more time.

I know there was no problem with the tournament, the reason I was not
allowed to finish it as is evident by my hand history is that in my attempt
to log out and back in of empire to try to restore connectivity to the other
three games I was shut out of empire because of your server problems.

I was unable to log back in, forced to blind off in the one tournament that
was "running well" as well as the three that were "disconnected".

Clearly this problem was at your end, are you saying that because I was not
able to log in due to your server problem I should be forced to suffer the
loss of a healthy stack 7-handed?

Offering me a bonus on my next deposit is a joke, I am a royal flush club
member at your site and I haven't even taken advantage of EITHER of the FREE
$100 that have been offered to me as a deposit bonus with no hands needed to
clear.

From: info@empirepoker.com
To: xxxx@hotmail.com
Subject: Reply From EmpirePoker. [#3317660]
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:03:56 -0400 (EDT)

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for contacting us.

We do understand your concern about the whole situation and would also like
to let you know that you are a valued customer to us. We did have a look
at your account and we see that you have been refunded for the 3
tournaments that you had faced a difficulty at, however the one that we are
having a dispute over did not face any problem.

Its is evident from the hand history that the tournament did not face a
problem because we did have 3 winners at the end of the tournament. The
reason why your hands were folded may be due to a temporary internet lag
that your connection may have experienced. This lag may not be directly
linked to your connection but may be due to a lag in the intermediatory
servers.

In case there was a problem from our end we can assure you that you would
have been refunded for this tournament along with the other 3 tournaments.

Since this did cause you inconvenience we would like to offer you a 20% up
to a max of $100 on your next deposit with us. The bonus amount will be
treated like all other bonuses and you will have to play 5 times the bonus
amount in raked hands from the day the bonus is added to your bonus
account.

Please do let us know once you have made a deposit so that we can add the
bonus amount to your account.


Benoy
Poker Customer Care

--Original Message--
From: xxxx@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-07-26 02:25
To: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
Subject: RE: Reply From EmpirePoker. [#3317660]

That WAS the problem... I disconnected on three games and this one was
working. I logged out in an attempt to log back in and restore the
connection of my three disconnected games but since YOUR site went down I
was unable to log back in at all.

You'd think you could take the time to look at this intelligently when
someone who has paid you $20,000 in rake in the last 5 months asks you too.



From: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
To: laxo123@hotmail.com
Subject: Reply From EmpirePoker. [#3317660]
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:07:11 -0400 (EDT)

Dear xxx,

We see that the tournament went on well and also you did not get
disconnected in the tournament. So, we are sorry to tell you that there
will not be any refund made to your account. We would however consider
the case if you could not connect back at all, if you would have got
disconnected.

Please note that in future if you face a problem and see that you are not
able to connect try logging out and logging back in, which will solve the
problem and if this does not, please contact us and we will help you get
back to the table.

Regards,

Shilpa G.
Poker Customer Care.


-Original Message--
From: xxx@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-07-26 01:57
To: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
Subject: RE: Regarding refund [#3317660]

I have watched the hand history and it is clear to me as it should be to you that I became disconnected part way through the tournament. Do you think
that I like folding all my hands for fun?!? Hands like open folding 99,
and folding my BB to no raise with AQ.

You can't possibly say this was some fault of mine that I was not able to
finish this tournament as I was playing 4 tournaments at the same time
and ou refunded me for 3 of them.

I am extremely frustrated with the poor customer service I have recieved on this issue and if it is not resolved soon I will take my business to another skin.

From: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
To: xxx@hotmail.com
Subject: Regarding refund [#3317660]
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 01:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
In regards to your query and checking in to the details of your account we
see that you had been placed in the tournament before there was a problem
with your server. Due to this reason the system did not award you the
money back. Please note that the refund will be given to the players only if they
happen to play at the table when the problem occurred. As you were out
of the tournament well before the problem had occurred the system failed
to award the refund.

Madan
Poker Customer Care


--Original Message--
From: xxx@hotmail.com
> > >Date: 2005-07-25 20:47
> > >To: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
> > >Subject: RE: No Subject [#3317660]
> > >
The money from the fourth disconnected game has still not been transferred
to my account. The game number and our previous email exchanges can all be
seen below. Please do not send me another automated email.
thank you.

xxxx


From: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
To: xxx@hotmail.com
> > > >Subject: No Subject [#3317660]
> > > >Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:29:00 -0400 (EDT)
> > > >
> > > >Dear xxxx,
> > > >
> > > >Further to your email we would like to inform you that we faced some technical difficulties and hence you encountered the problem. We offer you our most sincere apologies for the inconvenience you were put to, while playing at our tables for a short period of time. The money will be credited back to your account in the next six hours.

> > > >Regards,
> > > >
> > > >Deepthia
> > > >Poker Customer Care


> > > >--Original Message--
> > > >From: xxxx@hotmail.com
> > > >Date: 2005-07-21 04:41
> > > >To: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
> > > >Subject: RE: Reply from EmpirePoker [#3317660]
> > > >
> > > >Thank you for responding and for refunding 3 of the tournaments I was
> > > >playing but I was in 4 tournaments at the time and was unable to log on
> > >to
> > > >empire to play any of them. If you review the hand history from this
> > > >tournament you will see that I was disconnected and blinded out.
> > > >
> > > >the tournament in question is this one:
> > > >Taken to Table 14454 2005-07-20 18:56:17.0 $xxxxx Db $215.0
> > > >Taken from Table 14454 2005-07-20 19:44:08.0 $xxxxx Cr $0.0
> > > >
> > > >Thank You.
> > > >
> > > >xxxx


> > > > >From: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
> > > > >To: laxo123@hotmail.com
> > > > >Subject: Reply from EmpirePoker [#3317660]
> > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:07:28 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Dear xxxx,
> > > > >
> > > > >Thank you for contacting us.
> > > > >
> > > > >Our Internet Service Provider had connectivity problems, which partially interrupted some of the services provided on our sites.

I apologize for the delay in responding to you. Your refund of $265.00 for 11087 - NL($200/$15),$265.00 for 14452 - NL($200/$15), $265.00 for Table 17029 - NL($200/$15) has been processed and credited to your account. We appreciate your patience and apologize for the inconvenience caused to you.
> > > > >Madhumathi
> > > > >Poker Customer Care
> > > > >
> > > > >--Original Message--
> > > > >From: xxxx@hotmail.com
> > > > >Date: 2005-07-20 22:30
> > > > >To: vipescalations@empirepoker.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: disconnect during games... my internet is fine!
> > > > >[#50028137][#3317660]
> > > > >
> > > > >Hi there,
> > > > >Can you reply to the Player directly.
> > > > >Best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > >Evrita
> > > > >Empire Poker
> > > > >Royal Flush Players Club
> > > > >Customer Support Team
> > > > >www.ep.com


> > > > >--Original Message--
> > > > >From: xxx@hotmail.com
> > > > >Date: 7/21/2005 2:43:10 AM
> > > > >To: royal@empirepoker.com
> > > > >Subject: disconnect during games... my internet is fine!

I am curently in 4 $215 sit and gos and your site said i was disconnected but am not! I am using the internet and other poker sites and have
had no problem. I expect to be fully refunded for these games.
I play as blaydzfsteel on your site. Please get back to me and tell me what happened.
Thank you.

xxxx

[jackdaniels]

Very frustrating indeed.

i was going to suggest that you write to another department at Empire, but it seems like you wrote quite a few of them (info, vipescalations, royal). Aside from this, see if you can get your affiliate involved (I am assuming you have some sort of RB). HE won't want to lose the business you are providing and may be able to work it out with them (or possibly re-imburse you directly to retain your business).

Good luck.

[KingOtter]

Wow, the last one they sent is that crappy 'servers' one.

Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Have you tried phoning them?

I haven't seen a real explanation of what exact kind of 'technical difficulties' they had.

KO

[xLukex]

Be more polite the next time and chances are you'll be fully refunded.

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
Be more polite the next time and chances are you'll be fully refunded.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a joke, right?

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Be more polite the next time and chances are you'll be fully refunded.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a joke, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

It must be... I was a complete jerk to Party about the recent disconnections thing and I got a pretty good response out of them. Since support's english is so marginal I wonder if they really understand 'contempt'.

If they actually tried to SOLVE a problem like this for a change (ok, they seem to be to me on the disconnection issue, but I think I'm in a minority), it might be different.

KO

[xLukex]

If I worked for support and got this:

"
I am curently in 4 $215 sit and gos and your site said i was disconnected but am not! I am using the internet and other poker sites and have
had no problem. I expect to be fully refunded for these games.
I play as blaydzfsteel on your site. Please get back to me and tell me what happened."

I would say "shaddup, kid" and click delete.

You really should've fully explained the situation in the first email. Give all 4 tourney #s, explain that you logged off and tried logging back on, and be polite.

I was serious.

Anyways, I only read the first email he sent. Nothing else.

[Lestat]

Scary.

[MicroBob]

while empire's total lack to understand the situation here is frustrating I do think the poster's tone got pretty nasty VERY quickly.

asking them things like 'are you saying that I actually like being disconnected?' is not going to help them understand what you are saying.

you have to continually repeat that the reason you were disconnected from the 4th one is because you were trying to get back to the 3 others ones.

"I had to log-out of empire because of my disconnect on the 3 other one's. When I logged out it would not let me log back on. This wasn't my fault and it wasn't the ISP. It was because Empire was experiencing difficulties at the time. I was playing 4 SNG's at once....and 3 of them went down. So I HAD to log-out to try toget the 3 other one's to work again. But when I did.....I was just shut out completely."

etc etc.

"If the other 3 hadn't gotten disconnected I would never have had to log-off the client in the first place. It wouldn't let me back on!! I tried and I tried....and my internet-connection was fine.
The problem came when I had 3 other tables go out on me and I HAD to log-off."


blah blah blah.


Mentioning stuff like open-folding AQ and 99 is just arguing the wrong point and will confuse them and lead them to say "we can see that you were having difficulties with your connection."

Pick the ONE point and stick to it and repeat it over and over until they actually get it.


Yup....they're pretty dumb.
I'm not positive this is the right tactic to take. But I think it might have a better chance of sinking in with them.



Alternatively....couldn't you just call them??



Question 2: You were refunded $265 for each of the $215's that you were knocked off of??

[xLukex]

[ QUOTE ]
while empire's total lack to understand the situation here is frustrating I do think the poster's tone got pretty nasty VERY quickly.

asking them things like 'are you saying that I actually like being disconnected?' is not going to help them understand what you are saying.

you have to continually repeat that the reason you were disconnected from the 4th one is because you were trying to get back to the 3 others ones.

"I had to log-out of empire because of my disconnect on the 3 other one's. When I logged out it would not let me log back on. This wasn't my fault and it wasn't the ISP. It was because Empire was experiencing difficulties at the time. I was playing 4 SNG's at once....and 3 of them went down. So I HAD to log-out to try toget the 3 other one's to work again. But when I did.....I was just shut out completely."

etc etc.

"If the other 3 hadn't gotten disconnected I would never have had to log-off the client in the first place. It wouldn't let me back on!! I tried and I tried....and my internet-connection was fine.
The problem came when I had 3 other tables go out on me and I HAD to log-off."


blah blah blah.


Mentioning stuff like open-folding AQ and 99 is just arguing the wrong point and will confuse them and lead them to say "we can see that you were having difficulties with your connection."

Pick the ONE point and stick to it and repeat it over and over until they actually get it.


Yup....they're pretty dumb.
I'm not positive this is the right tactic to take. But I think it might have a better chance of sinking in with them.



Alternatively....couldn't you just call them??



Question 2: You were refunded $265 for each of the $215's that you were knocked off of??

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding to Mr. Microbob's post:

Yes, he was given his share of the prize pool.

And OP, why the hell are you playing 4 $215s when EVERYONE is getting booted?

Are you hoping for some risk-free SNGs or what? Did you think acting impolite would get them to refund you quickly and shut you up?

Am I still an idiot for my original response? I don't think so.

The OP seems a little LP to me...