Questions For Consistently Profitable Players

I would like to start out by saying I am pretty much a consistent loser at the poker tables and I am looking to improve my game. My basic "strategy" was simply to play top hands (Sklansky groups 1-5) and not raise on the more weaker hands in those groups. I would also fold early(after the flop) if there was nothing that improved my hand. Unfortunately, one of two things usually occured: I would either fold preflop or after the flop, so I would pay a lot of money in blinds and preflop calls or when I had a good hand with over a 50% chance of winning someone else would beat me by playing an awful preflop hand. I simply can't understand how consistent profit can be made by playing this game. To help me I would like to ask consistently profitable players a few questions. They are as follows:

(1) What percentage of flops do you play usually?

(2) What is the average drawdown from your beginning balance during the session you play?

(3) What is your average winning percentage of total hands dealt?

(4) What, in general, would you recommend to new players to help them better understand the complex nature of the game?

I appreciate greatly any help that you can provide. Thank you.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Type of game and which limit, is necessary to answer these questions.....


.....or rather attempt to answer them. What's the meaning of life? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Since I am just starting out, I am playing at the micro limit 0.50/1.00 Texas Holdem tables at Party Poker. Thanks for the reply.

i would think if you're playing tight and fairly aggressive, then you should NOT be a consistent loser. not sure it would make you a winner, but certainly not a loser.

a few things i'd check. are you really playing as tightly as you say?? or are you starting to creep looser when the cards go cold??? and then you don't tight back (shouldn't have looosened anyhow).

from what i've seen, complete killers are A-medium kicker offsuit, and people going for gunshot straight draws. turn and river are very expensive.

the other thing i found from reading SSME miller, king yao and some others is that you have to be aggressive in building pots. are you raising enough??

i think the micro-limit forum in here has FAQ with lots of stuff on VPIP, PFR, % going to showdown, % win at showdown. get an idea if you are even playing that.

i don't know sklansky top 5 hand groups (i've seen them, i just don't remember), but i have to figure tons of those hands can not be played in medium and especially late position.

Thank you for your reply. I do tend to not raise, even when I have a good hand. That may be a problem. I have just had so many good preflop hands beat. I also have very little knowledge of the importance of position. Is there any books that you would recommend that I read? Some book that is great for beginners?

[I.Rowboat]

As others have said, you can reduce limit holdem to a few key concepts:

1) Play good cards, especially when you are starting out, as it makes almost all other decisions a lot clearer/easier. "Good" in this case means premium hands -- bit pocket pairs (TT+), AK off suit, AT suited (and better), KQ suited. As you get a btter feel for the game you can add more hands, but the premium hands play well from all positions and can be played aggressively.

2) Pay very close attention to position -- when you have position, you need to use it to punish the other players by raising or reraising -- either to get the most value for your good hands or to get free cards for your drawing hands. Conversely, when you are out of position, you need to play need to respect that you are at a disadvantage and you will be fighting uphill. As you get better you can use this to your advantage, but initially, try not to play tricky hands out of position (unless the pot is offering you the right price...)

3) Play aggressively. You would do well to play with the mindset, "when I enter a pot, I am not going to call someone else's raise unless it is for purposes of deception or to build a bigger pot (by encouraging others to call behind me). I want to enter a pot raising, or I am going to fold and wait until I can raise with confidence." With your big hands (big pocket pairs and AK) you want to keep raising if at all possible, as these hands play best against fewer opponents, and you would like to confront later opponents with multiple bets, to discourage them from entering the pot and to get the most value from your best hands, because you won't get them very frequently. Once you have entered the pot, you need to keep the pressure on your opponents as the hand progresses, unless/until you meet resistance, at which point you need to evaluate: are you still ahead, or are you behind? If you are ahead, you should keep raising and keep putting pressure on your opponents, as this pays dividends in both the current and future hands. If you feel you are behind, you need to determine if you can afford to continue with the hand -- do you have outs to improve? If you improve, will you have the best hand? Is the pot offering you the right price to continue? Are you facing a single opponent or multiple opponents? These are complex questions to resolve, and they take time and experience. In general, winning players at all levels are good at making these decisions early in the hand, when the cost to enter is still relatively cheap. The earlier you can decide to fold, the more you save...on the other hand, if you decide that your hand is playable, you need to play it strong and hard, especially if you believe you have the best hand at the moment. Winning players fold their losing hands early and get in as many bets as possible with their winning hands, while also putting the maximum pressure on their opponents. For example, you might check the flop with top pair in early position so you can put in a raise after a later position player bets. This forces all the players between you and the first bettor to put in two bets, and most will (or should) respect the implied strength of your actions and fold.

4) Poker is a lot like religion: serious players are fervent and extremely devoted, and often have poker on their brains throughout the day. They are always looking to improve their game, by reading, discussing, and by observing their opponents. In almost every game, there's at least one good polayer and one lousy player, and a number of mediocre players. Learn from both the good, understand why the bad players are, in fact, bad, and try NOT to be one of the mediocre players in the middle. Good, winning players can be tight or loose (depending on their style and the style of the others in the game), but they are always aggressive. Learn to be aggressive in the right situations, and you will become a player that wins consistently.

Good luck!

[ QUOTE ]
3) Play aggressively. You would do well to play with the mindset, "when I enter a pot, I am not going to call someone else's raise unless it is for purposes of deception or to build a bigger pot (by encouraging others to call behind me). I want to enter a pot raising, or I am going to fold and wait until I can raise with confidence." With your big hands (big pocket pairs and AK) you want to keep raising if at all possible, as these hands play best against fewer opponents, and you would like to confront later opponents with multiple bets, to discourage them from entering the pot and to get the most value from your best hands, because you won't get them very frequently. Once you have entered the pot, you need to keep the pressure on your opponents as the hand progresses, unless/until you meet resistance, at which point you need to evaluate: are you still ahead, or are you behind? If you are ahead, you should keep raising and keep putting pressure on your opponents, as this pays dividends in both the current and future hands. If you feel you are behind, you need to determine if you can afford to continue with the hand

[/ QUOTE ]
really liked your comment very good.

i picked out three things. one i agree with totally, one i disagree with totally, and one i had a question about.

i agree totally that good players have a great ability to read whether they are behind or not and act accordingly. i did o.k. last weekend B&M but i think i left alot of $$$$$ on the table calling 3 bets on river when i pretty much knew i was beat (two guys raising and flush and straight possibility). you have to be able to give it up. but don't get weak either.

you said you want to come in raising (i think you said every hand). i like raising but there are alot of hands where you just want to call (depending on # of callers, your cards and the tight/aggressive etc. of game)... i think the come in raising almost every time you play is more shorthanded.... i know some guys are into "never cold call a raise" - either fold or reraise (i think that's in either harrington or miller).

lastly my question, you say raise AK to limit the field. i'd agree in game where the players are very good. but i don't mind that much against lousy players. yes, you will hit Ace pair and people will river a flush against you or hit two pairs. but i think these people will play alot of dominated horrible hands (K7, A6, Q9) and this is so profitable i find. i know the books are always talking about this, but i don't totally understand it. a pair of 10's or J's and i definitely think you want to cut down the field.

any thoughts at least on the last part (Raising AK to limit field).

[I.Rowboat]

I like raising AK as much for value as for field limiting purposes -- AK is a money maker, and I like to get as much value as I can with it. Sometimes, for deception, I might just call behind an earlier raiser, but usually I am re-raising to take the button or make someone with a small PP pay a stiffer price to see the flop.

I do feel AK off suit plays better against a smaller field. Ideally, you would like to face a single opponent with a smaller A or K. When you face multiple opponents and they are the sort that will play Ax or Kx for a single bet, you are just asking to get your hand cracked when an A or K falls. Think of it like this: against a single opponent with another A or K, they have three outs to beat your top pair. Each opponent with the same high pair on the flop picks up three additional out to beat your high pair, or a side card that may pair instead if an A or K doesn't flop. So I treat AK like the big hand that it is and raise to protect it. Of course, if the flop comes middle and coordinated (and not my suit), then I try to get away from it cheaply. This is another advantage of raising/re-raising with AK -- if you buy the button and miss, and the action is checked to you, you can take a free card.

Finally, let me just make a clarification to my point about entering pots with a raise: I agree that you don't want to do this every single time, because you don't want to be that consistent/predictable in ANYTHING you do. However, when I enter a pot from early position, it will be with a hand that is strong enough to raise with, and stand a reraise. And I will usually raise with it. This used to be a hole in my game, one that I have worked hard to fix; I'm now am a more consistent winner as a direct result of this single change(!!!) Paul Phillips has a great quote on his blog, "Loose limps sink chips," and I believe this is true. Now, if the pot has already been raised, I may just call (to increase pot size, or for deception), but if I am next to act, the overwhelming majority of the time I am either reraising or folding. If there are already several callers by the time the action reaches me, well, that's different. But I believe coldcalling a raise, especially when the raise came from EP, is a big hole in a lot of otherwise good players' games. When a good player raises from EP, it's usually because he has a very big hand. I would rather stay out of his way, unless there have already been at least one or two callers, at which point my non-premium hand may become playable.

FWIW, I play mid limits ($15-$30 to $30-$60), and the above style works well at those limits. Selective aggression takes the money down. At lower limits you may have to play differently, because you tend to get many more callers (and cold callers!), even for multiple bets.

understanding poker is more difficult than nuclear physics. if you're not willing to attack it like it's a way of life and success is your only option, dont play except for recreation.

[nomadtla]

First check out the FAQ for micro-limit hold'em
Found Here This will answer some of your stats questions for consistent winners.
Then join the discussions in the micro-limit forum. It has changed me from a consistently break even player (at similar limits to what you mention) to a consistent winner. Also buy Small Stakes Holdem by Sklansky, Malmouth and Miller. It fits these games perfectly. If you want more help or need anything you can usually find me in the micro's or just PM me.