Curtains Hand #1

[nyc999]

Why not lead out the flop if planning to call a flop and river bet? I understand controlling pot size is important, but he got one of the best possible flops for a blind steal gone bad.

[jon462]

is it normal to bother with blind steals at level 2 at the 200s? Or is this just to stick it to the other 2+2er?

[zipppy]

I can see the villian taking that line with a pp such as 9,9 or 10,10. Maybe a pp lower than 8.

More often than not I think my opponent is ahead, so I'd want to make them fold on the river. I also like betting/raising on the flop to find out the strength of their hand.


>>ZIP

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
I can see the villian taking that line with a pp such as 9,9 or 10,10. Maybe a pp lower than 8.

More often than not I think my opponent is ahead, so I'd want to make them fold on the river. I also like betting/raising on the flop to find out the strength of their hand.


>>ZIP

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet the flop and your opponent doesnt fold you are completely in the dark as to where you stand.

I doubt a riverbet would make villain fold better pairs (what are you representing?). Hero had top pair on the flop which and wants to show it down. Villain shows weakness on turn and then suddenly strength on the river, meaning he is either strong (like rivered two pair) or bluffing, the latter being reasonably likely since hero has shown so much weakness (checking three times).

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]


If you bet the flop and your opponent doesnt fold you are completely in the dark as to where you stand.



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Not necessarily. Are you assuming that your opponent calls? Perhaps if they call you don't know where you stand. Also, if the villian didn't hit this flop he may be willing to fold to a c-bet, which of course also shows where you stand.

Basically, betting or check/raising will extract more information than calling a bet.

[ QUOTE ]

I doubt a riverbet would make villain fold better pairs (what are you representing?). Hero had top pair on the flop which and wants to show it down. Villain shows weakness on turn and then suddenly strength on the river, meaning he is either strong (like rivered two pair) or bluffing, the latter being reasonably likely since hero has shown so much weakness (checking three times).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you take the line the hero does until the river and check/raise, many opponents will fold a better pair (though probably not kings).

I agree, though, that the villian is usually bluffing on this river. If this is true, however, check raising will both get some better hands to fold and bluffs to fold. It depends somewhat on what you want your table image to be like.

Also, it would help to know (as someone else pointed out) what reads there might have been on the villian.

as nyc said, what i dont understand is leaving complete agression to him, does he want to call down and show his 82 to the world? is that the image he wants? controling the pot oop is understandable, but calling that bet on the river is perplexing to me, id rather fire and hope he folds his pair

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
as nyc said, what i dont understand is leaving complete agression to him, does he want to call down and show his 82 to the world? is that the image he wants? controling the pot oop is understandable, but calling that bet on the river is perplexing to me, id rather fire and hope he folds his pair

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by calling, though, he doesn't show his hand unless he's ahead.

[nyc999]

Thinking about this hand a little more, if the villain is a 2p2 and knows Curtains (and vice-versa), maybe he had some type of read that caused him to take this line.

[Mr_J]

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does he want to call down and show his 82 to the world? is that the image he wants?

[/ QUOTE ]

This crossed my mind. Maybe image at the table, but possibly image for BB since he's a regular.

Curtains talked in a recent thread about liking to play regulars who think they know how he plays, and that some will rarely defend their 15, 30 chip bb thinking it's not worth it, or questioning whether anyone would actually steal a pot that small. Maybe this is just a steal.

If curtains thinks that BB is a weak tight player, he'd have to give BB credit for a good hand preflop. If we are to give him credit for a hand preflop, there's not much we a beating on the river, so curtains must think this player defends more liberally. If this is the case, then what's the point of raising in the first place?

[zipppy]

How wrong is folding to the villian's bet on the flop?

>>>ZIPPPY