Do i cap here?

15-30 O8B

Tex is holding A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG limps, two callers, I raise on the button, SB folds, BB calls, all others call.

Flop
4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB bets, UTG calls, MP+1 calls, MP+2 calls, I raise, BB three bets, UTG calls, MP+1 calls, MP+@ calls, I ????

do i cap here or do i just call and raise the turn???


Now, on the turn,

8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB bets, UTG folds, MP+1 raises, MP+2 calls, I ????

[themosh]

I'm pretty sure you cap on the flop. I almost never slowplay anything if it's multihanded.
Not sure about the turn though, but I'd raise there if u haven't capped the flop.

[Moneyline]

I'd cap the flop because you have enough opponents and enough nut outs for it to be +EV. This is not a hand to slowplay... few are in 08.

On the turn I'd just flat call. This was a really bad card for a couple reasons. First, a straight is possible so your top set is no longer the nuts. Second, a low is made and from the looks of the hand at least one person probably has the nut low. This also has the effect of giving you only half the pot if you make one of your high draws. You still have too many outs to fold, but raising is a poor choice here as well. Call the turn and hope to catch one of your 21 outs for half the pot.

Just my opinion...

yeah...well, the river was the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i played the hand backwards, i called the flop and capped the turn with top set, second nut low, and the nut flush draw and a straigt flush draw.

unfortunately, and almost unbelievably, the river got checked to me and i bet and got one caller who had A 2 3 and got counterfeited and I got 3/4 the pot with my wheel straight flush.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop
4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB bets, UTG calls, MP+1 calls, MP+2 calls, I raise, BB three bets, UTG calls, MP+1 calls, MP+@ calls, I ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Tex - Cap. with two cards yet to come you're an enormous favorite.

[ QUOTE ]
Now, on the turn,

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB bets, UTG folds, MP+1 raises, MP+2 calls, I ????

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn is not good for you.

It's not clear to me whether you capped on the flop or juct called. Might make a difference in terms of what you face after the turn. (I think a bet and a raise is less likely if you capped the previous round).

At any rate, at this point I think you just call. Looks a lot like MP+1 has A2XY. In that case, if I'm counting correctly, now you have 17 outs for the high half of the pot, 1 out for the nut low, and the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] scoops for you. Almost half the deck gets you something, but mostly probably just half the pot - and now UTG is gone. I don't think you quite have odds to raise, but I think you do have odds to call. A straight is possible, but not likely, unless your opponents play hands with a six and a seven in the face of all the action. And you, yourself, have the nut flush draw and top set. Hard to imagine who's raising at this point but the nut lows. If you do call, everybody should put you also on ace-deuce and the re-raising from any nut low should cease. In a sensible game there shouldn't be any re-raising here from your opponents.

At any rate, call the double bet and cross your fingers.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Xcalibur]

I think another reason why you want to cap the flop is that usually nobody folds to one more small bet.

[Ironman]

I agree with the idea that you should cap this flop...

and it looks like an A 2...but depending on my opponent, I think I might still raise this turn.

Here's why...

I raised preflop from the button in a 15/30 game. If my middle position opponent DID have A 2, don't you think he would probably reraise preflop because the rest of the table just called my raise.

Something doesn't add up here.

Could he have the straight, maybe, but those cards aren't the type of cards people see preflop raises with at 15/30. I think there is a chance he has some low cards with a non nut flush draw.

I think I put some more pressure here on the turn to see where I am before the river.

Dave

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
If my middle position opponent DID have A 2, don't you think he would probably reraise preflop because the rest of the table just called my raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Dave - No. I don't think he would probably raise preflop if he did have A2XY.

Re-raising or not before the flop with A2XY is highly individual dependent. Some do. Some don’t. Others sometimes do and sometimes don’t. (I sometimes do and sometimes don’t).

The lack of a pre-flop raise does not necessarily mean the lack of A2XY, unless MP+1 is known to always or almost always raise before the flop with A2XY. In that case the absence of that pre-flop raise would seem to indicate MP+1 probably did not hold A2XY. But otherwise, the absence of a pre-flop raise does not necessarily mean the absence of A2XY.

[ QUOTE ]
Something doesn't add up here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If so, maybe I'm missing something because this betting doesn’t seem unusual to me.

[ QUOTE ]
Could he have the straight

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. He could. I don't think he’s limited to the straight for the raise, but it's a distinct possibility.

[ QUOTE ]
I think there is a chance he has some low cards with a non nut flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that is possible, but it seems more likely he'd try to flush out the nut-flush draw on the second betting round than the third (when the bets double). But, sure, there's a chance.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I put some more pressure here on the turn to see where I am before the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might get a better idea where you are, but I’m not sure it’s worth the cost. Raising or not is close in my own mind. I don’t think a raise on the turn is horrid. I think you’re almost getting good enough odds to raise. And putting pressure on your opponents is probably worth while in itself.

I like a call on the turn better than a raise, but I'm not adamant about it. I simply think Hero is getting better odds with a call instead of a raise.

Buzz

[TheWorstPlayer]

Looks like it's been said, but I cap the flop and flat call the turn.

[benwood]

I think there's something to be said for not capping the flop. This way, they are more likely to bet into you on the turn, & you can just call if you don't like the turn card or raise if you do. This said, I still like capping the flop better, but I don't think it is completely clear what is correct. Either way, I would not raise the turn after this card comes.