Blind defense - Bringing a knife to a gun fight

Villain is 18/10/2.8
I know I sucked out here. The point is should I have been playing this hand at all? Is this a preflop fold or a flop fold?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

in my opinion, folding eights to a steal from the small blind is WEAK WEAK WEAK. and sometimes villains with VPIP 18 steal more than villains with 60, so some more reads would help.

So how would you have proceed here seeing this flop?

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
So how would you have proceed here seeing this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against this villain, raise the flop. Call a 3-bet &amp; fold the turn UI. If he just calls the flop raise &amp; checks the turn, bet the turn UI with the intention of taking a free showdown and fold to a c/r.

That's my normal line. Nothing wrong with varying your play, to include the line you took here. I just wouldn't try that turn raise too often--you fold the hands you beat &amp; are often called or 3-bet by the ones that beat you. I don't think you get him to fold 99-JJ or a Q often enough to justify it as a regular play.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Against this villain, raise the flop. Call a 3-bet &amp; fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]


And why are you calling a threebet getting like 12-1 to draw to a 20-1 shot? You're not getting the kind of insane implied odds you would need for that. In fact a lot of the time you hit your set on the turn you will still lose to KK or QQ. Spew spew spew.

[callmedonnie]

Even though I adovacted the same line, this thought did cross my mind. I usually just peel here, it is definitely a leak. At the same time, I know you don't want to fold all the time in this spot because you may become too suseptible to the bluff.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
And why are you calling a threebet getting like 12-1 to draw to a 20-1 shot? You're not getting the kind of insane implied odds you would need for that. In fact a lot of the time you hit your set on the turn you will still lose to KK or QQ. Spew spew spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because an aggressive opponent will 3-bet this flop without a K or Q...even without a pair. This is a blind battle, and things often get crazy. He might well decide that AJ (especially with the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) is good enough to 3-bet your expected flop raise, and then check to you on the turn when you still call (representing at least 2nd pair). Of course, it's also possible that he'll suspect you of being on a draw and 3-bet the flop, bet the turn with A high thinking it's good. Against a thinking opponent, it becomes even more likely that he'll make a move like this if we raise/fold the flop fairly often in these situations, so calling the 3-bet is also about the metagame.

I also think you're greatly overstating the number of times you make your set on the turn but still lose to KK or QQ, especially given the number of players who will slowplay a flopped set in this scenario (i.e., call your flop raise with the intention of check/raising the turn). This also makes a line of raise the flop/check through the turn/call a river bet reasonable, but with several draws present on this flop I prefer to bet the turn when it's checked to me.

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
So how would you have proceed here seeing this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have raised the flop. I fold to any turn donk or c/r, unless of course I hit eight on turn.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd need a read here, but I'm not a very big fan of riasing this flop. to me folding &gt; calling &gt; raising.

FWIW, in these spots I do a good deal of calling. With air, with a hand, with whatever. A lot of times, on a board like this, the SB gives up if you call once. If your SB isn't this kind of player, then calling seems [censored]. But raising doesn't appeal to me that much either.

Also, 3-bet pre-flop.

[SNOWBALL138]

I think this looks fine. A lot of guys cap any pocket pair from the SB. After the flop comes, your hand strength doesn't go down very much (although your hand value goes down a lot) because if your hand was good preflop it is often good after the flop. Some hands he might hold that like this flop are AQ, AK, and KQ. Other than that you are against some kind of PP or a nonpaired ace a lot of the time. I like your line on the turn because you can always fold to a 3 bet, and you can sometimes push out a hand like TT.