I'm a dumb liberal

[lehighguy]

Republicans are not conservatives.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
Republicans are not conservatives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

[tomdemaine]

The Democrats are not liberals.

I would start with Justin Raimondo. He is the editorial director of Antiwar.com and has written a few books on coservatism.

[jogger08152]

Someone said that conservatives are practical, rather than idealistic. I'd suggest that the opposite generalization would be truer; we conservatives tend to adhere to certain principles (EG "decentralized government is better because it enables people to vote with their feet") and attempt to solve (or in fairness, at times pretend to solve, attempt to explain away, etc) social problems from within that paradigm, behaving inflexibly about our principles. Thus, conservatives support lower Federal taxes across the board, disregarding Keynesian economic principles that might actually be useful at times (EG raising taxes during times of prosperity); we're always ready to throw a few bucks at the military because we believe that peace is best kept through military strength - and this in turn allows that strength to remain unused, always assuming we manage not to elect any more pols whose last name rhymes with 'push'

I would contrast this with what I think of as the conventional liberal approach - see a problem (and we might argue as to what is a problem of course), try to fix it by whatever means seems good at the time, often kowtowing to fad, and with seldom a thought of governing principles. This leads to things like the fit of "political correctness" that swept American universities in the early nineties. (Presumably the problem that PC was intended to address was speech that gave offense to certain individuals (again, I would argue that giving offense is generally not a "problem" in the political sense), and the response was to forcibly curtail speech that might be construed as offensive - and in the process, hyphenate the hell out of people. Anybody ever met a physically-challenged (nay, differently-abled) African-American with a learning disability?)

A principled conservative would reject PC, or a conservative equivalent if one were to spring up - out of hand - even if the proposed curtailment would eliminate primarily or exclusively speech he disliked and disagreed with: the principle that free speech promotes democracy and meritocracy is more important than the advantage of quelling speech one dislikes. And to forestall the obvious, yes, the "Christian right" often falls short of this principle (or rather, advocates another principle which I do not; "I'll let others elaborate," as someone on here occasionally says).

The roots of conservatism are the liberalism of the rennaisance, Montesque notably, and its influence on early American politics. Ben Franklin, with his pithy remarks ("Q: what type of government are you giving us, Mr. Franklin? A. A republic, if you can keep it;" "Those who would trade a little liberty for a little safety, will lose both and deserve neither.") would be a good example, as might Thomas Jefferson (numerous examples) - though in his day he was quite "progressive."

Incidentally, the current herd of republicans in the White House and Congress are -far- from the conservatives I'd hoped to elect when I voted for Bush in the election he may not have won. I didn't vote for him the second time around, and I'd argue that anyone who did, isn't actually a conservative.

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
The most important ideas propogated by the conservative movement in the States over the last forty years have been

(a) a belief in limited government and personal responsibility

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: the desire to accuse their opponents of being financially and personally irresponsible.

[ QUOTE ]
(b) a belief in a society rooted in traditional family structures and traditional family roles

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: the desire to accuse their opponents of hating "family" and "tradition".


[ QUOTE ]
(c) a belief in the importance of religion in the everyday life of society

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: the desire to call their opponents "anti-Christian" and "anti-God".

[ QUOTE ]
and (d) anti-communism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: the desire to call their opponents "communists".


q/q

[QuadsOverQuads]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Individual responsibility - this leads to the typical conservative views on crime and welfare

[/ QUOTE ]

As evidenced by the great character of men like Tom Delay.

[ QUOTE ]
2. A strong belief in absolute morality (usually this comes from religion) - see conservative views on abortion/drugs/gambling

[/ QUOTE ]

As evidenced by the willingness to defend torture.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Practicality over naive idealism - see conservative beliefs on economics/social engineering, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

As evidenced by the invasion and occupation of Iraq.


q/q

[QuadsOverQuads]

The point being :

If you want to know what a "conservative" really believes in, look at what he ACTUALLY DOES.


q/q

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]

The point being :

If you want to know what a "conservative" really believes in, look at what he ACTUALLY DOES.


q/q

[/ QUOTE ]

.......George Orwell

.....1984

.....Animal Farm

....."double-speak"

....."double-think"

It's all right in our faces, if we choose to see it.

I have trouble defining my political views, anyone that knows me would say i'm definitely very right wing& conservative, but if I go into detail I would support a lot of "left wing" ideas. Which group do you think best supports these views (if it matters, I'm British btw):

Very liberal financial, and personal responsibility and freedom: low tax, low-to-no benefits, free markets, no free-loading.

Very liberal legally: no drugs restrictions, no consensual-sex restrictions, objective intelligent secular schooling and legal system.

Very conservative criminally: very harsh sentencing for people who break laws.

To summarize with an example, I think that if I have worked hard through school to get qualified and get a good job, I should be able to spend my money to buy anything, for example drugs. If on the other hand people break my laws, say stealing to feed a drug habit, then they should be put down. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Am I a conservative?

And why doesnt this party exist so I can vote for them? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am surprised that liberal legal and liberal financial are rarely combined in a persons political opinions, it seems perfectly logical to me!