KK laydown versus DoYouSeeWhy?

[John Hurst]

If I reraise preflop and it's checked to me postflop I'm betting 100% of the time. I can't think of many flops where I would fold AA unless the action was bet and call before me.

[pzhon]

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Ok, he has aces. Folding is still horrible.

Imagine how bad the fold is if there's a chance he doesn't have aces.


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Folding is bad if he has aces, you know he has aces, and he doesn't know that you know he has aces. He'll probably pay off a set.

Even if he might not have aces, you might be worse off than the above scenario if he might not have aces, you are nevertheless convinced that he has aces, and he knows you are convinced he has aces. He can make a very profitable bluff on the flop, and will not pay off a set.

That he might not have AA reduces your implied odds.

[junkmail3]

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Ok, he has aces. Folding is still horrible.

Imagine how bad the fold is if there's a chance he doesn't have aces.


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Folding is bad if he has aces, you know he has aces, and he doesn't know that you know he has aces. He'll probably pay off a set.

Even if he might not have aces, you might be worse off than the above scenario if he might not have aces, you are nevertheless convinced that he has aces, and he knows you are convinced he has aces. He can make a very profitable bluff on the flop, and will not pay off a set.

That he might not have AA reduces your implied odds.

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WTF!!!!!!?!


<font color="white"> [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] </font>

[pzhon]

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That he might not have AA reduces your implied odds.

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WTF!!!!!!?!
[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


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Ireiguy pointed out that you can play KK for set value if you know the minreraise means AA. Fine.

He suggested that it is more clear to call the minreraise if the minreraise might not be AA. As I pointed out, this is not necessarily correct. Calling the reraise might be less profitable (whether it is correct or not) against someone who does not have AA 100% of the time. In similar situations, KK might be profitable against someone who would always have AA, but unprofitable against someone who would have AA 80% of the time, and QJs 20% of the time. As I stated, this is because your implied odds are reduced. You still have to fold to a substantial flop bet unimproved, but you now expect to get significantly less when you flop a set. This should be clear to anyone who understands NL cash games with deep stacks.

What, if anything, did you mean to add to the discussion?