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#31
11-02-2005, 03:18 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't know how to use Excel [/ QUOTE ] wow. I might have to give you some nerdy excel lessons. people that don't use it have no idea the breadth of tools excel offers and how easy it all is. I seriously use excel for everything [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I would wager that given your math abitlities jason, unless Josh has some prexisting formulas set up, you might be just as fast w/o excel. [/ QUOTE ] I would wager on Josh. if I were you. Most people that are well-trained in mathematics are not quick at calculating things like this: this is intuitively clear since we spend most of our time mired in deep abstract math, not doing calcluations. 
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#32
11-02-2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't know how to use Excel [/ QUOTE ] wow. I might have to give you some nerdy excel lessons. people that don't use it have no idea the breadth of tools excel offers and how easy it all is. I seriously use excel for everything [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I would wager that given your math abitlities jason, unless Josh has some prexisting formulas set up, you might be just as fast w/o excel. [/ QUOTE ] I would wager on Josh. if I were you. Most people that are well-trained in mathematics are not quick at calculating things like this: this is intuitively clear since we spend most of our time mired in deep abstract math, not doing calcluations. [/ QUOTE ] the big advantage of excel is that you can tweak the numbers and see the effect it has on your overall EV
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#33
11-02-2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
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make some judgment weights for the combos [/ QUOTE ] i didnt see that so if youre doing it right then i apologize. i would like to see you do this however and im sure if you put ample thought into judgment weights for each combo it will take a long time for each problem but will certainly result into becoming a much more sophisticated player. id also like to say that if youre trying to revolutionize the forum by having people do ev calculations the way youd like them to then these threads should be about arguing hand ranges and judgment weights on those hand ranges, which is really what bobbyi is trying to do but in a less sophisticated way. youre right that the sophisticated way of doing these problems is much more accurate then the way they have historically been done. id like to see your hand ranges and judgment weights on those hand ranges for this hand so i can agree/disagree with you on them.
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#34
11-02-2005, 03:31 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] make some judgment weights for the combos [/ QUOTE ] i didnt see that so if youre doing it right then i apologize. i would like to see you do this however and im sure if you put ample thought into judgment weights for each combo it will take a long time for each problem but will certainly result into becoming a much more sophisticated player. id also like to say that if youre trying to revolutionize the forum by having people do ev calculations the way youd like them to then these threads should be about arguing hand ranges and judgment weights on those hand ranges. id like to see your hand ranges and judgment weights on those hand ranges for this hand so i can agree/disagree with you on them. [/ QUOTE ] I used to do these a lot but I'm thinking it was probably when I was posting in SS and you in MHS. as I said earlier, the nice thing about excel is you can tweak the numbers to see the effect on EV. let's say it's someone's opinion that he only raises QJo 50% of the time preflop, while I think he raises it 100%. I can cut the combinations in half and see what the affect on EV is. I can also plot it on a graph and see how EV changes by the changes in combinations for each hand. I agree with what you say about hand ranges being the most important thing. that's why in my first post I ended it with something like "what do you think his range of hands is." and baron responded that hand reading is so critical and I agree. but knowing how these hand ranges affect the EV is huge. one thing I've learned from doing this is how screwed you are in hands like this because there are 16 clean combinations of QJ. it's generally unreasonable to put someone specifically on a set, while straights on boards like this are extremely common given the action. I'm about to go on a bus so I'll try to do it there. I might just PM or email it to interested people because I got banned again for a terrible reason and I'm pissed. I'll be in vegas too btw
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#35
11-02-2005, 03:31 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't know how to use Excel [/ QUOTE ] wow. I might have to give you some nerdy excel lessons. people that don't use it have no idea the breadth of tools excel offers and how easy it all is. I seriously use excel for everything [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I would wager that given your math abitlities jason, unless Josh has some prexisting formulas set up, you might be just as fast w/o excel. [/ QUOTE ] I would wager on Josh. if I were you. Most people that are well-trained in mathematics are not quick at calculating things like this: this is intuitively clear since we spend most of our time mired in deep abstract math, not doing calcluations. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I realized that; I don't think that TStoneMBD realized what you were doing and I don't think that Dids et al. realize the tediousness of doing these calculations by hand. Plus I seriously suck at calculating with actual numbers but that's how I've been analyzing hands like this.
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#38
11-02-2005, 03:37 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
[ QUOTE ]
betting the flop is a mistake. good checkraise. betting the flop accomplishes nothing unless you plan to fold when shown aggression. checkraising allows us to extract value and fold the turn UI when we lead and a player raises. [/ QUOTE ] you don't think 3-way a player this aggressive player raises AK on a super draw heavy board against a donk bet?
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#39
11-02-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
Surprised everyone thinks this is a fold. JJ-AA are still well in UTG's range. The unknown button three-bet looks bad but there are enough 10/20 players that would play 98, JT, or even some unexpected hands like AT or QQ this way. Some quick math says you are getting around 4-1 to get to showdown and I think you'll be good enough of the time that it is +EV to get there.
Also, this is 4 handed which should change their hand ranges on the turn considerably.
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#40
11-02-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Snakes on a Plane
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yah id love to see your spreadsheet, feel free to pm it to me. im also going to be staying in the bellagio. [/ QUOTE ] I'll host it on my website. TS could do the same if you are okay with it. Krishan
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