apparently i need help counting outs

[irishpint]

How would you play this hand? Flop leaves me with middle pair, an overcard and a backdoor flush. I think the backdoor flush is worth 1.5, my kings are worth 3 and my 5's are worth 2. Leaving me with 6.5, right? or wrong...

Should I have bet the flop/taken control ever? Or was it ok to check/call to the showdown? When I flop a monster I know what to do. When I flop trash I know what to do. But when I flop a 5 outer, or middle pair I'm clueless.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[gvibes]

I fold the flop, but maybe I'm a nit.

[Siegmund]

You might want to discount the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K since it puts a 3-flush on board. But the out-count is basically correct.

Question is, why did you call this down? if you have 6 outs you need to be getting 7:1 to call; on the flop it was 5:1 to you. Fold, unless you believe middle pair is a winning hand here a significant percentage of the time.

On the turn, your backdoor draw didn't come in, so you now have only 4-5 outs left. (If it HAD come in, you'd have 13-14 outs for seeing the river.) Now you need between 8:1 and 10:1 odds to call, and it is 4:1 to you. And if your opponent bet bottom pair, he's ahead of you now. Fold.

Same story on the river. You are unimproved. Do you believe your bottom pair is good 1/6th of the time to win this, vs an opponent who didnt raise preflop bets all three streets?
Is there ANY hand your opponent could be betting that you are beating? Two overcards and that's it.

[deception5]

I'm not counting outs yet, I look at this as a made hand so I raise the flop. Second pair is a good hand in 6-max. If 3-bet I will likely call and check/fold the turn unimproved (depending on my opponent).

[Shillx]

I would have bet the flop in this spot if I had the intention of calling a bet had I checked. Give yourself that extra way to win the pot.

Brad

[ArturiusX]

I'd bet this everytime in 6max.

[cmwck]

Bet the flop, and this hand plays differently.

Since you just check-called the flop, the decision now is whether to call or fold the turn. The pot is very small, and every river card is bad for you, except for your four outs and maybe a ten. So, without a read, and playing the hand like you did, I'd fold the turn.