PLO8 Preflop Desicion

#1 10-12-2005, 03:38 AM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $4 BB (9 handed) converter

SB ($156)
BB ($150)
Hero ($469.90)
UTG+1 ($185.10)
MP1 ($134.65)
MP2 ($396)
MP3 ($152.60)
CO ($226.55)
Button ($99.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, 1 fold, MP3 raises to $26, CO calls $26, 2 folds, BB calls $22, Hero calls $22, UTG+1 raises to $162, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $126.60 (All-In), CO calls $136, BB folds, Hero ???

I generally don't like putting alot of money in the pot preflop but are my odds just too good to fold here? I am generally a HE and Stud/8 player just getting into PLO8 so this is probably a very easy choice but my first time playing higher than the $100 max buyin game everyone is much more agressive here.

Wintermute · #2 10-12-2005, 11:28 AM

I would fold for a few reasons, although it's close.

First, this hand isn't so strong that you can be sure you have enough equity to make the call +EV. Without running the numbers, I imagine an A234, A235, or an A2xx and AAxx in combination have you in pretty bad shape. I think it's tough to assign a range of hands to three opponents willing to get all-in preflop that doesn't contain these hands or something very close, which has you as less than 25% equity.

Second, there are no postflop decisions to be made. Your hand is one that benefits from postflop bettability... however, the other three players in the hand are shortstacked, so everyone will be committed no matter what cards come on the flop. So that strength of your hand is neutralized.

Third, with three players in the hand, it is somewhat more likely that many low cards are in hands and not the deck. This doesn't bode well for a board that fits your hand well.

Fourth, a call here is basically going to be a hope for some slight +EV at the expense of relatively high variance. I used to think that this exchange is always good, but I now understand that even the best bankrolled player should not trade indiscriminate amounts of variance for a tiny shred of EV. Why? Because we are not impervious to tilt, and we adjust our play in a negative way when we are losing. Has to do with gambler's utility.

Anyhow, for interest's sake, what were the hands that were turned up? (I presume you saw them since all players were all-in.)

Mendacious · #3 10-12-2005, 12:34 PM

I like this response, especially in light of the original posters level of experience. Playing the high variance with a small +EV style is really only advisable if you are playing at limits and in a game where you are very comfortable.

#4 10-12-2005, 12:51 PM

Thank you for your response and I definitly see your points. I actually ended up calling just cause the pot was so large I was getting like 3.9:1 on my call and if I get a good flop I thought I could scoop or get 3/4ths and if I got quatered no big deal. Of course I wasn't thinking how often I wouldn't get any of it however it turned out nicely for me but that isnt really important.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $4 BB (9 handed) converter

SB ($156)
BB ($150)
Hero ($469.90)
UTG+1 ($185.10)
MP1 ($134.65)
MP2 ($396)
MP3 ($152.60)
CO ($226.55)
Button ($99.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, 1 fold, MP3 raises to $26, CO calls $26, 2 folds, BB calls $22, Hero calls $22, UTG+1 raises to $162, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $126.60 (All-In), CO calls $136, BB folds, Hero calls $136.

Flop: ($670.60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $68, UTG+1 calls $23.10 (All-In), CO folds.

Turn: ($761.70) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($761.70) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $761.70

Results below:
Hero has Ad 4s 3d 5h (Low: 5, 4, 3, 2, A | High: straight, five high).
UTG+1 has Kd Ac Kh Qc (Low: 8, 4, 3, 2, A | High: one pair, kings).
MP3 has As Ah 9h 7h (Low: 7, 4, 3, 2, A | High: one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $761.70.

I have no idea how CO ended up folding or what he even called with, given that all the As are out maybe he had the other 2 Ks and 2 other high cards and given the other 2 hands this is a surprisingly high +EV call if I actually knew their hands before calling but like you said vs normal ranges I am likely in bad shape in general. Thank you for your advice.

#5 10-12-2005, 03:24 PM

UTG+1 has Kd Ac Kh Qc (Low: 8,4,3,2,A High: one pair, kings)

How does he have this hand?
(Low: 8, 4, 3, 2, A |)

Drizztdj · #6 10-12-2005, 03:44 PM

Did UTG+1 forget he was playing O8?

#7 10-12-2005, 03:55 PM

you were up against a very interesting set of hands.

WTF the CO was doing is a mystery.

I'd mark every one of those players and play with them again.

#8 10-12-2005, 05:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 has Kd Ac Kh Qc (Low: 8,4,3,2,A High: one pair, kings)

How does he have this hand?
(Low: 8, 4, 3, 2, A |)

[/ QUOTE ]

Im guessing that probably an error in the convertor