What should I expect from my bankroll growth ?

I have been reading a fair bit here and see people talking about so many BB/hr.

It is a long story but I don't have a fortune to put into a bankroll at the moment, so I am playing 'nanolimits'.

I play the .05/.10 limit at Pacific.

I had initially won a couple of freerolls there and went from a 0 bankroll to a $113 bankroll by taking the $10 from the freerolls and playing some SNGs (and winning them).

In any case, I cashed out a big chunk to buy Super System, then played some SNGs out of my limit range... I had been playing the $1.50 and $3 SNGs but I tried a couple of the $10 ones and was suddenly playing scared - then I left the SNGs and went to the .25/.5 game and again was playing with scared $... I lost most of it 'experimenting' way outside my limit. At least I learned WHY I want 200BB in my bankroll before I play at a specific limit!

I have since switched to playing only the .05/.10c game and I am playing it to the best of my ability (which is still quite limited, as I had always played NL and had always specialized in tourneys, so this is a completely different game for me but I think I am doing well, which is where you come in).

I know I am learning a lot, but I am only gaining a tiny bit of experience, especially since most players at this limit are terrible. The problem with that is that they will call to the river often and suck me out (I am not complaining, I understand it all evens out in the end, and I should (will) come out on top because I am a better player).

I have read a lot of the threads here and I am learning a lot from them. I have read several books, although I have a long way to go there, as I plan on getting (and had planned on it before coming here!) most of the 2+2 books after reading all the reviews.

Annnnnnyway...

My bankroll is around $10 right now, which I think is just right for this limit, and I would like to see it higher, but I am not forcing it - I mean; I know I can't MAKE people make mistakes, I just have to be there to help them push their chips to me when they do, but that takes a while.

I am very patient, and I will keep working at it, but I was wondering if there is any way to quantify what I am doing without a hand history... I CAN say that I am not making any tremendous gains or taking any great losses...

During the course of a day, my bankroll will get healthy gains, and suffer hits, then gains again, and it is up and down - I understand (sort of, and just basically) that is what happens - swings go both ways - but what I am wondering is what people talk about over a length of time... How can I word this...

Because it is only $10, when my bankroll climbs to $11 (like it is right now), it doesn't seem like a huge gain, but if I had a $10,000 bankroll and it climbed by the same percentage, I would be happy (since that would be a $1000 climb...)

So I guess I am just wondering what to expect... Should I be happy if I come away from the table after 4 hours of play (at the .05/.10c table - and I only play one table) up only $1 ?

I mean, that does infer that I am on the right track - but I may come back and lose that same $1 tomorrow (playing correctly, getting sucked out, etc) - again I am not complaining, just wondering if anyone has any advice or opinions... I do normally wind up on the plus side - I have taken my profits and repeatedly put them into SNGs but I am moving away from those until my bankroll gets bigger as there is too much luck in those - can't control your seat/table, lousy players get lucky and win too often, etc

I think I am doing fairly well in limit games, all things considered, but my bankroll can go from $10 to $8.50 to $12 in one session...

Is that to be expected ? I think I know the answer - but what should I expect ? I obviously play well enough to get it to climb, but the downswings are usually caused by people sucking me out and I believe I am playing correctly - they are calling to the river with odds - I bet, they call, and it seems that it has just evened out - they get lucky often enough to make my bankroll fluctuate that much...

Should I not even bother considering this question? I am learning, not much though - I pretty much know what to do against these no mind players, although there are always holes to fill, leaks to stop - but I know you can't bluff a bad player, and fancy tricks don't work on most of these people, so at these limits, most of the good stuff doesn't work - which means, most of the time I have to wait for cards, although I am somewhat liberal (being mindful of position!) in my starting hand choices.

I think I am rambling here - I just want to know what to expect, and I wonder if anyone can really even answer that question for me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I think, if I really play my game and don't mess around (which is hard to do consistently for hours on end when playing at that limit, especially since I am still learning and trying to switch gears often!) I think I can increase my bankroll by about $1 per day - so that sounds pretty good, right ?

[thesharpie]

I'd read something other than Supersystem if you haven't read limit hold em books before. Yes it's all relative, making $1 after a session of nickel won't excite you but that's 10BB. If you feel you're playing well and get too bored with the stakes I'd deposit a hundred and play .25/.50. FWIW I started at the same site and stakes, .5/.10 Pacific with a $60 stake plus a $30 bonus that took months to clear. If you don't want to invest much you could deposit $50 into stars and play .10/.25. It's gonna take awhile before you can move up to .25/.50 on Pacific if you rely on winnings even if everything goes to plan.

[SCfuji]

its interesting that you have so much variance at these nano limits. i guess with more players in each pot your variance should go up but usually it should be skyrocketing more than it plummets. im sure youll do fine if you dont let the cashier box affect your game.

[TheNerd]

I haven't posted a lot on this forum but I have been around for about 8 months.

Like you I started at .05/.1 at Pacific with $30.00. I am now starting to play 2/4 at Party. I am by no means the best player to ever pick up cards and I haven't had a fantastic run, but by slowly grinding away I have worked my way up.

Right now making a buck doesn't seem significant but you'll find your earnings start to snowball as you move up in stakes. It took me two months to go from .05/.1 to .25/.50 and from there it took off.

.05/.1 can be frustrating but I think it was enormously valuable to me. The thing that will wreak havoc with your emotional control is bad beats. At .05/.1 you get bad beats galore and it helps you get used to them. It's like: if you get kicked in the nuts enough times after awhile you don't feel the pain. By the time you get up to higher stakes the odd time you get a bad beat it doesn't seem as bad ("Is that all you got? Eh? Eh?")or--and I'm baring my soul here--you almost kind of like it ("hurts so good").

So from someone who isn't an expert or a smarty pants: buy SSHE (it saved my life), take your time, move up when you have the bankroll, don't sweat the bad beats and this above all: never fold quads.

What is it Anthony Hopkins says in The Edge :"What one man can do, another can do."

If I can do it, you can too.

Good luck.

Just to save everyone some time, my ex-wife and I split, she has custody of our son, plus I haven't worked since August of last year, so I can't afford to deposit anything at the moment.

I had intially thought about playing some minor SNGs to get my bankroll up (which is what I did at first when I got it up over $100) but with my BR now at $11 since I cashed out a chunk, and wasted most of the rest playing the $10 SNGs, I only have enough to play 8 SNG and if I lose them all I am broke - better to take it slow at the nickels and hope luck favors me for the next while...

I am hoping to start training as a police officer soon but for now, I am stuck at this limit (unless I can get a backer lol)

I have read Gary Carson's Hold Em book (although it is limit oriented, I read that when I was playing NL and gleaned some info from it) - also read TJ & Tom's championship book (which didn't tell me much new - I had been playing that way in tourneys for a while so I didn't learn much there) - also read a couple of John Vorhaus' books (two of the killer poker ones) - read a bit of the phil helmuth stuff - and read a LOT of stuff online - a minor one from the WPT (Mike Sexton's book), and as I mentioned, Super System -already read the NL section and have started on the limit but I keep finding more stuff to read here at the forum and so I haven't finished the limit section - even though I started it three days ago [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[POKhER]

Royal Vegas do $10 free for signing up, i got this up to $100 over one weekend.

Previously to that, i started with $20 deposit at .02/.04 and worked my way up. Right now i sit on $300 or so and am playing .25/.50

Preparing to move to .50/1 soon.

Good luck, Keep reading forums and learning and play TIGHT AND AGGRESSIVE.
All the best,
PH

[ QUOTE ]
its interesting that you have so much variance at these nano limits. i guess with more players in each pot your variance should go up but usually it should be skyrocketing more than it plummets. im sure youll do fine if you dont let the cashier box affect your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see a fair number of flops but not an outrageous amount - I am tight in EP, looser in LP, etc - can't steal blinds at this limit, can't bluff (not often anyway!), can't protect my hand, and like I said, fancy plays are lost on most people so I don't bother with check-raises etc, unless I can play the best hand slowly enough when someone else is betting it to the river, then I will check raise them on the river, but other than that, there isn't much point...

I have even taken to NOT betting the flop on occasion, like when I make top pair but there are two cards to a straight draw on the board and five others in the pot - why ? because most times SOMEONE has a draw and they will call all the way to the river (criticize me if you will, call me weak tight if you want, but at this level, I have lost more betting with those cards in that situation than I have made - maybe it is luck, maybe confirmation bias is lying to me, maybe... but I can't bring myself to bet the top pair on the flop in EVERY circumstance - that is based on a judgement call) - I WILL bet the turn however (not much point betting the flop when I likely won't have the best hand by the river - but - IF the turn is a brick (or improves my hand I will bet and hope that the small(ish) pot and larger size of the bet is enough to scare them away - I figure at this level, value bets on the flop just aren't cutting it and since so many people chase, I would rather get a free card even with top pair on the flop - I know that if the turn is good for me, a bet will either drive out a foe, or at the worst, make it better for me (another one of those "it depends" situations) - AND when a bet on the flop is only .05c, raising doesn't drive these people out, AND it is just creating volume and giving them more reason to WANT to see the river, RIGHT ? So, in my opinion, in these types of cases, that is the adjustment that had to be made, and it seems to be working!

No, the big pots I rake aren't as big as they used to be because I am not pushing as hard anymore in certain situations, but the ones I lose are also smaller - so I guess I am just adjusting my variance...

The fact that I was able to do that just by my own experience suggests to me that I may be capable of doing it fairly easily at all levels (once I reach the higher level of experience that is, I will be able to shift gears and adjust my play based on table texture, etc)

More on why I am reluctant to bet the flop in certain circumstances:

It is partly based on my position, meaning I am more reluctant to bet into a full field on the flop because pretty much every one of them will call, inflating the pot size, making them all want to stay in until the river, how many callers are after me - which could change significantly on the turn, if I am in early position and the turn comes a brick, I can push out 2 or 3 out of 5 or 6 callers, and on the river finish the job, which means, yes, I am shrinking the possible pot size but I am also reducing the number of hands that can outdraw me, and I am also reducing the number of possible re-raises I face, and if that helps me stop leaking so much in those types of hands, so be it - unless someone has any better ideas...

There are still occasions where I can pump them all and continue to re-raise, but I found that I was playing the super aggressive mode (which was largely why my variance was so high, because I was being outdrawn) but I have found the happy medium, for this level, I think...

Unless I score a miracle, I won't be moving up to the next level until I can afford to deposit some cash. I think I would do fairly well at those levels...

Maybe I should just use the money I have in my BR right now, play the SNGs and hope I win - if not, it really won't matter - I can go back to playing freerolls and/or play money until I can afford to deposit - at least that way, if I win, I can move up...

I mean, I am learning bits and pieces, but really, most people playing at this level are so beneath me, there isn't much to learn about them - although I guess it is MY game that needs improvement ... so for that matter, it doesn't matter at which limit I play, as long as I take it seriously...

No, I don't get out much [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

It doesn't sound like you're happy with the current limit you're playing, seeing as how you're willing to risk it all on one SNG (which, if you want to continue with that BR, is not a good idea IMO). I say you put poker aside, concentrate on your personal and professional life, and come back to poker when you can deposit sufficient BR for the level that you'd like to be playing at. What I've found is that when you force yourself to play where you don't want to play, you wind up tilting the money away (like throwing it all into one SNG, for example).

Also, don't play anymore until you've read Small Stakes Hold 'Em. It will give you more confidence in making the correct move rather than making assumptions based on the past ("I always seem to get drawn out on, so I don't bet the flop.")

Take a break, get everything settled in your life, read SSHE, and then round up $150 and come back to play at the .25/.50 level. When you can afford it, invest in Poker Tracker as well.

That's my 2 cents.

- thing85 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[kenberman]

if you are a winning player, you should be making at least 2BB/100 at the nanolimits like .05/.10. this means that for every 100 hands you play, you'll be up, on average, .20.

so after 2,000 hands you sholuld be up, on average, $4.

that's the type of bankroll growth you should expect.

now, there is a giant shortcut available: bonuses. go surf the internet/internet bonuses forum and figure out the best ones for you.

I can tell you right now that there are 3 Boss media skins that give you a $100 bonus for 500 hands played, at any level.

they are Sporting Bet, Total Poker, and casino.net. after about 2000 total hands, assumning you play b/e, you'll have $300 after playing 2,000 hands at these sites.

[rafct]

Hi,

If you are worried about going broke with your BR, I suggest getting into other opportunities online where they give you money to start from nothing. 2 other sites I know do that, royal vegas and crazy poker (they give you $10 to begin. problem would be to cashout from these you need to make a deposit of $20).
I have also began with pacific and the variance is really high for microlimit, plus the 1-tabling sucks and it seemed easier for me to build this money with SNGs there too.
Another opportunity are freerolls that many sites offer - these are multi table tourns with no buy in, you can begin a bankroll from that too.