How Many Mistakes Did I Make In This Hand???

Dopey · #1 09-03-2005, 03:10 AM

No reads, how would a good player play this because after the hand I flet like I really suck [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Limp re-raise bothers me thus no cap.

Flop: (15 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Check-raise the flop based on position in relation to PFR? Three-bet?

Turn: (9.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

??????

River: (11.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

Dumb river bet? How often does the river change anything? Fold to the raise would be really bad, right? Check/Call?

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

What hands would you expect villian to have at showdown?

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

RiverTheNuts · #2 09-03-2005, 03:16 AM

Wowza... I cap preflop, 3 bet the flop, calling down from there, and then check/raise the river

checking the flop is very bad, it lets the whole field call one instead of two, not that anyone is priced out anyways...

check raising the river... he isnt gonna threebet you without at least a straight

Dopey · #3 09-03-2005, 03:41 AM

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Wowza... I cap preflop, 3 bet the flop, calling down from there, and then check/raise the river

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I should of capped preflop, but against an unknown should you be concerned by the limp-re-raise.

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check raising the river... he isnt gonna threebet you without at least a straight

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What has the river changed that makes a c/r a good play. Does it really change anything except now you beat 2 pair? Isn't it a scare card to anything you beat thus the risk of it checking through. Combining these two factors is there any +EV to a check raise?

Are you folding to a 3-bet then?

I had played this so poorly upto the river that I guess you could say he could have a hand that I now beat given I haven't put sny pressure on him since I bet the flop.

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

setzf · #4 09-03-2005, 03:42 AM

I don't see the limp reraise too often in my games but when it has happened the range of hands seems to be JJ+, AJs+, AK and every once in a while a maniac with a medium pp or suited connector. Given that and the fact that there are several limpers I like capping preflop for value. In my opinion if the limp reraiser was to your right calling MIGHT be right to encourage him to bet into you so you can raise his flop bet.
GIVEN THE WAY YOU PLAYED PREFLOP I would 3 bet the flop. Your hand is too strong on average.
GIVEN THE WAY YOU PLAYED THE FLOP I would lead the turn. If he has AA he will almost never raise you since he has no club draw, if he has QQ he'll probably check the turn, if he has JJ he usually won't raise again since he has no club, if he has AK w/out a club he wont raise and if he has AK with a club he probably will raise which would actually be to your benefit. The only hand he will usually have that he will raise with is KK with a club and some timid players might not even raise with that. In any case I think leading the turn is far better than check/calling. In fact if the villian was capable of laying down a hand when he might be drawing dead then an argument can be made for checkraising. Someone who folds too much might lay down AA since he wont have a club.
I think the river is fine.

synbad13 · #5 09-03-2005, 03:57 AM

I wouldn't cap the flop. If your AK were sooted, then I would cap in a hear beat, but the limp RR would seriously catch my attention. I feel that from the "normal" player, that consists of AA, KK. Although they don't always have a premium hand, they do enough that I think capping is wrong.

The flop is fine, but I would lead out the turn.
If he raises, check/call the river (regardless, unless a club hits ofcourse).

The river Ace doesn't change much in my opinion. I doubt he had a worse 2pair. I would check/call from the way this hand played out.

Octopus · #6 09-03-2005, 09:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the limp reraise too often in my games but when it has happened the range of hands seems to be JJ+, AJs+, AK and every once in a while a maniac with a medium pp or suited connector.

[/ QUOTE ]

I once looked back throught all the limp-reraisees I have seen and others have done this as well. What we found is that a limp reraise is QQ+ or AK about 40% of the time we see the cards. Since these cards are more likely to see a showdown, the true percentage may be lower. (It is also possible that these hands play more aggressively post-flop and so win more without a showdown; depends on the player.) A significant percentage of the time, it is a hand that you or I would not play for half a bet in the SB, much less three bets. In any case, in a readless situation, I would not assume a big hand.

setzf · #7 09-03-2005, 02:24 PM

from a psychological perspective i think someone who limp reraises no matter what they hold will feel obligated to play the hand aggressively. so whether they have TT, KQ, or AA the limp reraiser will usually play the hand very aggressively. Given that AND the fact that there are only 3 ways for him to have AA and one way of having KK (on the flop) I prefer playing back aggressively. The times your ahead you are losing too much when you slow down i feel.