playing back vs 40% stealer

helpmeout · #1 08-31-2005, 01:43 AM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises

This guy is another one of your 50/30 players who steals at over 40%.

3bet preflop or is this fine? I planned to checkraise the turn even if he bet the flop.

bank · #2 08-31-2005, 01:47 AM

why play back at a lag? just c/c him down. No need to 3 bet preflop . The turn c/r might work against a TAG but not a LAG...this is just spewing. What if he 3 bets you? You want to put 3 bets in on the turn and call him down? *pukes*

wackjob · #3 08-31-2005, 01:53 AM

I'd fold the turn w/o a big read. The pot is not big, you are likely behind.. and when a LAG checks a flop like this it means trouble very often. Even when he has totally missed he will play it so aggressively that you will have to lay it down many times anyways.

HolyBejeesus · #4 08-31-2005, 02:28 AM

I'd 3-bet it preflop.

Vaftrudner · #5 08-31-2005, 02:34 AM

Hmmm, a LAG that doesn't bet the flop... /v

wackjob · #6 08-31-2005, 02:39 AM

Even vs. a LAG K10o OOP is not a great hand. There is no shame in calling PF & folding to a flop/turn bet that you don't hit at all.

Surfbullet · #7 08-31-2005, 03:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Even vs. a LAG K10o OOP is not a great hand. There is no shame in calling PF & folding to a flop/turn bet that you don't hit at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about shame. This player steals ALOT. If we fold every time we miss we are folding the best hand a large % of the time.

Surf

Surfbullet · #8 08-31-2005, 03:17 AM

It depends on the type of LAG, IMO. Aganist a loose openraiser who is more straightforward when met with aggression, I 3bet liberally in this circumstance, especially with any decent Q, K, or A.

However, there are many LAGs who will call a 3bet and have no qualms about semi/bluff raising a flop that he thinks I missed...basically good hand-readers, in which case I like a pf call much better, and will often call down since they often hang themselves with continuation-bets.

As a default I'd 3bet pf. Most players respect a pf 3bet more than call-c/r.

Surf

HolyBejeesus · #9 08-31-2005, 03:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It depends on the type of LAG, IMO. Aganist a loose openraiser who is more straightforward when met with aggression, I 3bet liberally in this circumstance, especially with any decent Q, K, or A.

However, there are many LAGs who will call a 3bet and have no qualms about semi/bluff raising a flop that he thinks I missed...basically good hand-readers, in which case I like a pf call much better, and will often call down since they often hang themselves with continuation-bets.

As a default I'd 3bet pf. Most players respect a pf 3bet more than call-c/r.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really, really good analysis.

wackjob · #10 08-31-2005, 03:33 AM

I don't suggest folding every time. I am saying that sometimes it will not be bad to just call/fold here. The way this was played I think a turn fold was in order.