AT from the BB flops TPTK

blackize · #1 07-09-2005, 08:21 PM

First hand at the table so no reads or stats on anyone. When it gets 3 bet back at me what is my plan? I misclicked for the cap. When the turn came relatively safe I decided to lead out again.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, Hero caps, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Derek132260 · #2 07-09-2005, 08:25 PM

When it's 3-bet back to you, call. When you lead out that turn and get raised again, I think you're folding. What does he have that you're beating? Absent a read telling you this guy is super-aggro...you're behind here (possibly a set of fours, possibly an overpair of some kind).

blackize · #3 07-09-2005, 08:29 PM

I am ruling out an overpair, because of the lack of raise or reraise preflop. Generally someone this aggressive with an overpair is very aggressive preflop as well.

I think you're right and I need to fold to this much aggression against an unknown, but I am still in HUSH mode and go to showdown a bit too often with TPTK

mr pink · #4 07-09-2005, 08:34 PM

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When it's 3-bet back to you, call. When you lead out that turn and get raised again, I think you're folding. What does he have that you're beating? Absent a read telling you this guy is super-aggro...you're behind here (possibly a set of fours, possibly an overpair of some kind).

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dude, consider the size of the pot when the action gets to him.

sure the button could have a set, but he could also be playing KT, QT, JT, or 67 like this on the flop. hero is good here way often enough to cap the flop.

on the turn, the lead out is good. getting raised on the turn sucks but it's not like we knew it was gonna happen. we really don't feel too good about our hand as a set of fours becomes highly likey given the action, but the pot is 13.5 bbs when the action gets back to us, there are 2 fives and 2 tens in the deck that can improve us over 4s full + the chance that the button is on AT for a chop or is really overplaying some random hand that we're ahead of... which is why i'd check/call the river like hero did.

i think i'd have folded preflop, but postflop is fine imo.

Harv72b · #5 07-09-2005, 08:38 PM

FWIW, I think you played this absolutely perfectly up until the Button 3-bet the flop. An overpair seems highly unlikely, as any player timid enough to limp behind 2 players on the button with JJ or higher is probably timid enough not to 3-bet a T-high flop after the PFR and you raising right out the gates. TT is unlikely as the other two tens are accounted for, so this leaves 2 likely possibilites--2 pair, or a small set, with another AT also possible. The pot is big enough that folding would be terrible, but the cap is not warranted (and you say it was a misclick, so no big deal there).

I don't like leading the turn. The 5 pairing only helped you in the extremely unlikely event that Button held exactly T4. Again, with the size of the pot I think I'd check/call in case he was going wacky with an OESD or he's holding another AT (or a bizarrely played AK or something), but I certainly wouldn't lead.

Easy check/call HU on the blank river, getting 16.5:1.

blackize · #6 07-09-2005, 08:40 PM

Considering the size of the pot yeah I probably did have to call down. Honestly I really really wanted to fold it preflop, but getting 6-1 immediately and when a few of the limpers call more like 10 or 11-1 I think it warranted a call.

Harv72b · #7 07-09-2005, 08:44 PM

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sure the button could have a set, but he could also be playing KT, QT, JT, or 67 like this on the flop. hero is good here way often enough to cap the flop.

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I disagree. He's holding one of those other hands often enough to call the 3-bet (and call down after), but I don't like capping and possibly chasing out the third player who is padding the pot right now. You also have to consider that he 3-bet with a player who raised preflop out of the SB behind 3 limpers still to act behind him--you have to figure that SB has an overpair a good percentage of the time, and so does a moderately alert button. This makes a 3-bet with a weaker T less likely IMO.

I think just calling down is a vastly superior option to capping the flop & leading the turn, especially given the third player still in the pot. The fact that CO hung in until the turn regardless notwithstanding.

chesspain · #8 07-09-2005, 08:45 PM

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FWIW, I think you played this absolutely perfectly up until the Button 3-bet the flop.

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So you really like the call preflop?

Harv72b · #9 07-09-2005, 08:48 PM

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So you really like the call preflop?

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He's looking at probably 9:1 on his money preflop + ideal position on the PFR for any postflop action. I think that's plenty enough to make ATo an almost automatic call here.

Nick C · #10 07-09-2005, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
When it's 3-bet back to you, call. When you lead out that turn and get raised again, I think you're folding. What does he have that you're beating? Absent a read telling you this guy is super-aggro...you're behind here (possibly a set of fours, possibly an overpair of some kind).

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For what it's worth, if Villain showed Hero 44 or KK-JJ after raising the turn, then Hero should call.