Flush

swolfe · #1 05-05-2005, 10:39 PM

I just posted. This is my first hand at the table.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($586.28)
MP1 ($394)
MP2 ($836.15)
MP3 ($268.6)
Hero ($400)
Button ($529.52)
SB ($447.8)
BB ($184.95)
UTG ($120.4)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $4. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, 1 fold, MP3 calls $4, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls $4, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

i had thought about raising, but decided to play it tight since i don't have any reads.

Flop: ($28) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $10, MP1 folds, MP3 raises to $20, Hero raises to $50, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $40, MP3 calls $30.

so much for playing it tight. thoughts on the raise? in hindsight, it seems too small.

Turn: ($178) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $175, UTG+1 calls $175, MP3 calls $214.60 (All-In), Hero calls $39.60, UTG+1 calls $39.60.

crap, i should have bet $107 so that his push would reopen betting [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

River: ($821.80) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
UTG+1 bets $200, Hero calls $131.40 (All-In).

hmmmm....i assume everyone agress with a call here?

Final Pot: $1153.20

swolfe · #2 05-06-2005, 09:50 AM

too standard? too boring?

Ghazban · #3 05-06-2005, 10:01 AM

What were you trying to accomplish with the flop raise? With two people having bet and raised already, I doubt you'll win right away and bloating the pot with 9-high when you are going to get called seems like a bad idea. Furthermore, with the size of the raise, bigger flush draws aren't going anywhere. I think your turn bet clearly indicates that you hit your flush and yet two other people are willing to put in more money-- I don't think your hand is any good (unless you improve to the straight flush). By playing the turn as you did, you have to call off the rest of your stack on the river (because, to play the way you did on the turn, you must've felt your hand was the best and the 3 of clubs certainly isn't changing that).

swolfe · #4 05-06-2005, 10:32 AM

the flop raise: i was trying to knock out a bigger flush draw (but my bet was too low), potentially take a free card on the turn, and take initiative so that i could fast play if the flush hit the turn. also, if i hit on the turn, i want the pot to be big enough to get my stack in by the river (this is PL).

if there had been a real bet and raise in front of me, i probably would have just folded, but villain 1 bet 1/3rd of the pot and villain 2 min-raised.

Ghazban · #5 05-06-2005, 10:40 AM

Not to be results oriented, but if neither of them had a flush I'll be very surprised. What do you put UTG+1 on when he puts you in on the river?

swolfe · #6 05-06-2005, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not to be results oriented, but if neither of them had a flush I'll be very surprised. What do you put UTG+1 on when he puts you in on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

the flush, obviously [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

he had A4s and the monkey had 82o. putting him on a flush, i still ought to make that river call, right? there's a small chance that his flush is lower, or that he has a set or something...

how would you have played it differently? called the $20 on the flop? folded?

i still think that the correct play would have been to make a proper raise on the flop. it's less likely that UTG+1 would have called had it been $100 to him instead of $40.

Ghazban · #7 05-06-2005, 11:14 AM

First hand at the table, I fold the flop. I suspect that UTG+1 made his small bet on the flop to price in his own flush draw which will be higher than mine the majority of the time (sure, sometimes he'll have 54s or something like that, but from EP, I'd expect its more likely he has a higher one). Then the minraise is clearly a clueless person who either flopped a flush draw himself or is (pathetically) trying to protect some sort of made hand.

Since this leads me to believe there is a good chance of at least one flush draw being out (other than mine), I fold. Unknowns at this level are better than their .10/.25 counterparts but, without knowing if they'll chase at bad odds or not, I don't want to make a big semibluff raise (because I can't accurate guage the folding equity). Regardless of their skill (which is unknown at this time), I'm going to have to put in a big raise on this flop and commit a lot of chips.

Change the flop to give yourself a gutshot or bottom pair or something to go along with your flush draw and I like raising better.

swolfe · #8 05-06-2005, 11:23 AM

cool, good points. EP's small bet was suspicious, and the only draw here is the flush, but without any reads i decided to take the agressive route.

note to self: don't semibluff every decent draw you have

kurto · #9 05-06-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
crap, i should have bet $107 so that his push would reopen betting

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, I've been playing a year and a half and I still don't understand this part.

If I raise to $50. Someone calls. And someone goes all-in for his last $65. When it comes back to me, why can't I reraise it?

swolfe · #10 05-06-2005, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I raise to $50. Someone calls. And someone goes all-in for his last $65. When it comes back to me, why can't I reraise it?

[/ QUOTE ]

because the push is less than a minimum raise.

if i bet $25, then the minimum raise is to $50. if someone calls my $25, then another pushes for $45, they haven't made a legal minimum raise and the only option we have is call or fold.