First NL hand ever. Lost my stack. HELP!!!

anatta · #1 08-07-2004, 11:36 PM

100 buy in. 3 and 2 blinds.

I get QQ in MP. First hand of NL I have ever played. (I have been doing well in SNG online, this is live at the Bike in LA). I raise $15. Called by player to my left and BB. Flop 663r. I bet $50. LP calls.

Turn is a Ten. I go allin and lose to A6o.

What should I raise preflop? Was my flop bet too much? Should I go allin there? What am I doing, lol!

Finally, if you could...I hear a lot about how "bad" a live no limit structure is. The blinds and buyin and such. Could someone explain what makes a good or bad no limit game structure.

Muisyle · #2 08-07-2004, 11:45 PM

You lost to a dumbass who got extremely lucky.

anatta · #3 08-08-2004, 01:33 AM

I thought so too. A rather inauspcious (however the [censored] you spell it) begining. My first and only hand ever! 0-1

Monty Cantsin · #4 08-08-2004, 01:43 AM

I'm also fairly new to NL, but I'm pretty sure the correct thing to do in this situation is reload.

/mc

SkippingGoat · #5 08-08-2004, 02:03 AM

I thought you played this fine. LP is more likely to flip over an inferior overpair here than the 6. Sadly, 66x is the one and only flop this guy was going to make any money against you.

How much to raise preflop? This depends heavily on the game. In some games, players will run in fear in the face of a 5xBB bet wheras in other games (often live ones), 10xBB is a standard preflop initial raise. Bet the maximum that worse hands will routinely call.

As for NL structure, I assume you're referring to the relationship between max buy-in and blind size. I'd classify anything less than 50BB as shortstacked, 50-150BB, as midstacked, and >150BB as deepstacked. The deeper the stack, the more skill you need to play successfully as decisions potentially have larger risk and reward. With short stacks one becomes pot committed very quickly and decisions are much more straightforward. Genrally, with a short stack, most significant chip movements occer preflop and on the flop. Rarely will action occur on all four betting rounds as one person is usually all-in by the turn. For instance, in the hand you described, by the the time you realized you might be in trouble, 2/3 of your stack was already in the pot and there was no way you could get away from the hand. If you had $500 in front of you this could have played out very differently. Most good players complain that the max buy-in is too small but, as a beginner, a smaller buy-in can act as a safety net to prevent a bad decision from costing you too dearly. Your best bet, however, is to play at a low blind game (.10/.25 or .25/.5) with deep stacks (online if you can't find such a game in a casino) and get a feel for the game. Once you're adept at the low blind games with a big stack, handling a small stack is a cinch. That is, making the transition from small stack to big stack is much more difficult than the other way around. In fact, players often double up a couple times and feel lost with all the chips in front of them.

anatta · #6 08-08-2004, 05:15 AM

Thanks a million!

So the Bike game would be a "shortstacked" game, with blinds at 3 and the buy in at 100. (33x BB). I am at the Commerce now and downstairs is a 600 max buy in with 20 as the BB. That is short too it seems, but I am not sure they are enforcing the buy in amount?

I am going to check this game out, my friend is playing in it right now. Some random musings...I've played limit holdem for a few years. I played 20-40 to 40-80 this summer and ran well, 18000 grand, but then lost back about 5. I have switched to online no limit sitngo. I have been getting my feet wet in the $20 buyin at Stars. I have won or placed second in 11 out of 13 so this is nice, I know its low limit but winning is fun.

They have currently have 6 no limit games going on downstairs here at Commerce. Mason wrote that no limit died out because good players have too big an edge. This is what I think too, from the SNG's, big ass edge. I don't even really know what I am doing, just playing poker and betting a proper amount based on my reads, stealing, restealing, etc...my point is, yes I have one...with the popularity of No limit holdem these days, all the kids are playing it and they haven't paid their dues grinding it out month after month, just jumping in, and the rich guys who don't care, why does anyone who really wants to make money play limit? Isn't being a good poker player chosing the game where your edge is the biggest??

warlockjd · #7 08-08-2004, 06:55 PM

Check and fold the turn

SkippingGoat · #8 08-08-2004, 07:11 PM

You wouldn't call $35 to win $185? You don't think there's a 16% chance that villain has an inferior overpair? I think that folding here is a massive mistake.

warlockjd · #9 08-08-2004, 07:12 PM

I missed that it was $100 buyin. Sorry. You are right, easy call.

Girazze · #10 08-09-2004, 02:40 AM

Since this was your first hand ever playing NL and, obviously, at this table, you have no read whatsoever on the players. Without a read on anyone to your left, they could have easily had KK or even AA with you easily disguising their hands with the $15 bet. I believe a bit more caution should have been exercised post-flop instead of betting >50% of your stack. You committed yourself after that bet. How would you have felt with someone turning over KK or AA? Yes, A6o was a strange call with a pre-flop bet of $15 but I think your $50 bet post-flop was just as strange without considering the folks to your left possibly having over-pairs.