burning when there has been an exposed card

If a card is exposed during deal and the dealer gives the player missing a card the top card off of the deck after all other palyers have recevied their cards, does the dealer still burn a card, or does the exposed card become the burn card? I ask this because while I have been told the former, it defies common sense. The reason for a burn card is to prevent someone with knowledge of a marked deck from knowing what the first card to the flop is. If the top card is not burned before dealing a flop, a cheater with knowledge of a marked deck will know the first comminuty card before dealt.

How do you rule in this situation?

The exposed card is the burn card.

Do you have a reference eg. roberts rules (which I skimmed but didn't see anything relevant here)?

[Lottery Larry]

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Do you have a reference eg. roberts rules (which I skimmed but didn't see anything relevant here)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there a reason you won't take anyone's word for things? If you're not going to take the time to check it yourself from official sources that you trust, why are you rejecting the information people keep giving you?

It's the burn card. It's put back on the top of the deck, face up, and "burned" again (and then turned over) when the time comes to deal the flop.

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If you're not going to take the time to check it yourself from official sources that you trust, why are you rejecting the information people keep giving you?

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I did, and found no reference to this situation, so I asked here for a better or more thorough reference. I'm sure you can recall a time where this forum offered conflicting interpretations of the rules, and it gives a sense of legitimacy to your advice if you can point to a source.

Regardless, thanks for your explanation, I've never seen the burn card placed back on top of the deck face up, that does somewhat remedy the situation (though the back of the first community card is still exposed for a short time).

[Lottery Larry]

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I did, and found no reference to this situation, so I asked here for a better or more thorough reference. I'm sure you can recall a time where this forum offered conflicting interpretations of the rules, and it gives a sense of legitimacy to your advice if you can point to a source.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look harder:
http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/poker/chapter3.php

"MISDEALS
(f) Any card has been dealt out of the proper sequence (except an exposed card may be replaced by the burncard).

13. If a card is exposed due to dealer error, a player does not have an option to take or reject the card. The situation will be governed by the rules for the particular game being played."

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/poker/chapter5-7.php


HOLDEM
RULES #1
"If any other holecard is exposed due to a dealer error, the deal continues. The exposed card may not be kept. After completing the hand, the dealer replaces the card with the top card on the deck, and the exposed card is then used for the burncard. If more than one holecard is exposed, this is a misdeal and there must be a redeal."

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Regardless, thanks for your explanation, I've never seen the burn card placed back on top of the deck face up, that does somewhat remedy the situation (though the back of the first community card is still exposed for a short time).

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The card is placed on top more to prevent another burn card than to protect the top card.

Change the rule to suit your group's needs, if you'd prefer. one way to get everyone to mirror the casino rules is to explain that your players don't want to look stupid in a casino cardroom when they make a mistake due to the home game irregular rules.

Here you go...

MISDEALS
1. The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands. (If two players have acted in turn, the deal must be played to conclusion, as explained in rule #2)
(a) The first or second card of the hand has been dealt faceup or exposed through dealer error.
(b) Two or more cards have been exposed by the dealer.
(c) Two or more boxed cards (improperly faced cards) are found.
(d) Two or more extra cards have been dealt in the starting hands of a game.
(e) An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.
(f) Any card has been dealt out of the proper sequence (except an exposed card may be replaced by the burncard).
(g) The button was out of position.
(h) The first card was dealt to the wrong position.
(i) Cards have been dealt to an empty seat or a player not entitled to a hand.
(j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.
2. Action is considered to occur in stud games when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. Once action occurs, a misdeal can no longer be declared. The hand will be played to conclusion and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled.
DEAD HANDS
1. Your hand is declared dead if:
(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.
(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).
(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your upcards off the table, turn your upcards facedown, or mix your upcards and downcards together.
(d) The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See “Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]
(e) You act on a hand with a joker as a holecard in a game not using a joker. (A player who acts on a hand without looking at a card assumes the liability of finding an improper card, as given in Irregularities, rule #8.)
(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.
2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.
3. Cards thrown into another player’s hand are dead, whether they are faceup or facedown.
IRREGULARITIES
1. In button games, if it is discovered that the button was placed incorrectly on the previous hand, the button and blinds will be corrected for the new hand in a manner that gives every player one chance for each position on the round (if possible).
2. You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.
3. If a card with a different color back appears during a hand, all action is void and all chips in the pot are returned to the respective bettors. If a card with a different color back is discovered in the stub, all action stands.
4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).
5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.
6. If there is extra money in the pot on a deal as a result of forfeited money from the previous deal (as per rule #5), or some similar reason, only a player dealt in on the previous deal is entitled to a hand.
7. A card discovered faceup in the deck (boxed card) will be treated as a meaningless scrap of paper. A card being treated as a scrap of paper will be replaced by the next card below it in the deck, except when the next card has already been dealt facedown to another player and mixed in with other downcards. In that case, the card that was faceup in the deck will be replaced after all other cards are dealt for that round.
8. A joker that appears in a game where it is not used is treated as a scrap of paper. Discovery of a joker does not cause a misdeal. If the joker is discovered before a player acts on his or her hand, it is replaced as in the previous rule. If the player does not call attention to the joker before acting, then the player has a dead hand.
9. If you play a hand without looking at all of your cards, you assume the liability of having an irregular card or an improper joker.
10. One or more cards missing from the deck does not invalidate the results of a hand.
11. Before the first round of betting, if a dealer deals one additional card, it is returned to the deck and used as the burncard.
12. Procedure for an exposed card varies with the poker form, and is given in the section for each game. A card that is flashed by a dealer is treated as an exposed card. A card that is flashed by a player will play. To obtain a ruling on whether a card was exposed and should be replaced, a player should announce that the card was flashed or exposed before looking at it. A downcard dealt off the table is an exposed card.
13. If a card is exposed due to dealer error, a player does not have an option to take or reject the card. The situation will be governed by the rules for the particular game being played.
14. If you drop a card on the floor out of your hand, you must still play that card.
15. If the dealer prematurely deals any cards before the betting is complete, those cards will not play, even if a player who has not acted decides to fold.
BETTING AND RAISING
1. Check-raise is permitted in all games, except in certain forms of lowball.
2. In no-limit and pot-limit games, unlimited raising is allowed.
3. In limit poker, for a pot involving three or more players who are not all-in, these limits on raises apply:
(a) A game with three or more betting rounds allows a maximum of a bet and three raises.
(b) A game with two betting rounds (such as lowball or draw) allows a maximum of a bet and four raises. [See “Explanations,” discussion #6, for more information on this rule.]
4. Unlimited raising is allowed in heads-up play. This applies any time the action becomes heads-up before the raising has been capped. Once the raising is capped on a betting round, it cannot be uncapped by a subsequent fold that leaves two players heads-up.
5. In limit play, an all-in wager of less than half a bet does not reopen the betting for any player who has already acted and is in the pot for all previous bets. A player facing less than half a bet may fold, call, or complete the wager. An all-in wager of a half a bet or more is treated as a full bet, and a player may fold, call, or make a full raise. (An example of a full raise is on a $20 betting round, raising a $15 all-in bet to $35).
6. Any wager must be at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round, unless a player is going all-in.
7. The smallest chip that may be wagered in a game is the smallest chip used in the antes, blinds, rake, or collection. (Certain games may use a special rule that does not allow chips used only in house revenue to play.) Smaller chips than this do not play even in quantity, so a player wanting action on such chips must change them up between deals. If betting is in dollar units or greater, a fraction of a dollar does not play. A player going all-in must put all chips that play into the pot.
8. A verbal statement denotes your action and is binding. If in turn you verbally declare a fold, check, bet, call, or raise, you are forced to take that action.
9. Rapping the table with your hand is a pass.
10. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.
11. To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act.
12. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action. However, if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw that money and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you.
13. In limit poker, if you make a forward motion with chips and thus cause another player to act, you may be forced to complete your action.
14. String raises are not allowed. To protect your right to raise, you should either declare your intention verbally or place the proper amount of chips into the pot. Putting a full bet plus a half-bet or more into the pot is considered to be the same as announcing a raise, and the raise must be completed. (This does not apply in the use of a single chip of greater value.)
15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet, but do not announce a raise, you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet.
16. All wagers and calls of an improperly low amount must be brought up to proper size if the error is discovered before the betting round has been completed. This includes actions such as betting a lower amount than the minimum bring-in (other than going all-in) and betting the lower limit on an upper limit betting round. If a wager is supposed to be made in a rounded off amount, is not, and must be corrected, it shall be changed to the proper amount nearest in size. No one who has acted may change a call to a raise because the wager size has been changed.
THE SHOWDOWN
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)
3. Any player, dealer, or floorperson who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error. Please help us keep mistakes of this nature to a minimum.
4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.
5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.
6. If you show cards to another player during or after a deal, any player at the table has the right to see those exposed cards. Cards shown during a deal to a player not in the pot should only be shown to all players when the deal is finished.
7. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there is a side pot, players involved in the side pot should show their hands before anyone who is all-in for only the main pot.
TIES
1. The ranking of suits from highest to lowest is spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs. Suits never break a tie for winning a pot. Suits are used to break a tie between cards of the same rank (no redeal or redraw).
2. Dealing a card to each player is used to determine things like who moves to another table. If the cards are dealt, the order is clockwise starting with the first player on the dealer’s left (the button position is irrelevant). Drawing a card is used to determine things like who gets the button in a new game, or seating order coming from a broken game.
3. An odd chip will be broken down to the smallest unit used in the game.
4. No player may receive more than one odd chip.
5. If two or more hands tie, an odd chip will be awarded as follows:
(a) In a button game, the first hand clockwise from the button gets the odd chip.
(b) In a stud game, the odd chip will be given to the highest card by suit in all high games, and to the lowest card by suit in all low games. (When making this determination, all cards are used, not just the five cards that constitute the player's hand.)
(c) In high-low split games, the high hand receives the odd chip in a split between the high and the low hands. The odd chip between tied high hands is awarded as in a high game of that poker form, and the odd chip between tied low hands is awarded as in a low game of that poker form.
(d) All side pots and the main pot will be split as separate pots, not mixed together.

Rules provided by Bob Ciaffone via ROBERT’S RULES OF POKER