25/50 Deep Stack Tricky Hand

[theBruiser500]

5 handed, button raises he is LAG, he used to play bad but IMO has been playing better ltaely, this is deerchaser21, me and him both have 15k. SB calls, he is weak, I have QQ and reraise pot. i know i can just call but deerchaseer will call me with many weaker hands here and i feel like i would be "declining the challenge" if i don't reraise. so i reraise he calls

i have black queens, flop is 4c 7h jc, i bet 1300 into 1550 pot he calls. i feel like he is LAG and might be calling prefop or on the flop just to outplay me, turn is 7c, what now? i check, he bets pot of 4400 or something i fold

[Ulysses]

If you're going to make that fold, don't reraise pre-flop.

[theBruiser500]

also for what it's worth i would say not only is he playing better, but he's outplaying me with his LAG style

[chuddo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to make that fold, don't reraise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

hate to do the passe quoting "what he said", but this was going to be the first thing i was going to reply with.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
i know i can just call but deerchaseer will call me with many weaker hands here and i feel like i would be "declining the challenge" if i don't reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

surely you see how silly this is in retrospect. all you do is define your hand to a LAG who is outplaying you and to top it off he has position.

as played i think you should fire again on turn.

[aggie]

Bet the turn again (3/4 pot?) and fold to a big raise. But like the other posters are saying i don't like the preflop reraise with stacks this deep (300 bb's)...QQ's are an incredibly difficult hand to play out of position against tricky laggish players. Keep the pot small and allow you're opponent to overplay his hand...

By the way, I missed you at the Wynn a few weeks ago. I met your 2 friend daryn and another guy who's name i forget. I was dissapointed you did not come out that morning. Do you ever play at foxwoods?

[cero_z]

Hi greg,

[ QUOTE ]
surely you see how silly this is in retrospect. all you do is define your hand to a LAG who is outplaying you and to top it off he has position.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure which part you think is silly, but I would reraise here every time against a LAG. They're 5-handed, so you ought to be reraising with a lot of hands when the button opens the pot and you're in the blinds; might as well fire with legit hands as well. But maybe you were just saying Bruiser's reasoning (not wanting to "decline the challenge") was bad. I'm not sure that's bad either, not in the macho sense, but in the sense of showing him your blinds are not to be [censored] with without consequence.

Bruiser's mistake, IMO, was giving up on a big pot with an overpair and flush draw vs. a guy who runs him over.

Bruiser, you are obviously very successful with your style; we play very differently, but I'm interested in your thought process. Please explain to me how you can lay this down. Why is he betting 4400 if he has a flush? Don't you think he's trying to protect top pair or bluffing you at least twice as often as he is betting a small flush or trips here (in which case you have 7 outs)? I'm assuming a boat is out of the question. What else beats you?

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure which part you think is silly, but I would reraise here every time against a LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is reraising here as automatic as you make it seem?

With 100 BB stacks i'm reraising here everytime also as well as with many other hands. But when the stacks are so large i don't think think this is so automatic. Pot control and position are much bigger considerations with stacks so deep. I'm reraising may fewer hands (but still liberally protecting my blinds by calling often). I'm often slowplaying / trapping LAG's with hands like QQ out of position while i'm raising almost any 2 on the button.

Anyway, this is more a style issue. Is my philosophy -EV?

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure which part you think is silly, but I would reraise here every time against a LAG. They're 5-handed, so you ought to be reraising with a lot of hands when the button opens the pot and you're in the blinds; might as well fire with legit hands as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

its more of a case of how the game has been playing up to this point. if the game is playing as you would play it, where many pots are getting reraised pre, then sure reraise with both good and bad hands. im thinking that if this is how the game was playing, bruiser wouldve mentioned it.

what i was assuming is that a reraise is an infrequent occurance, and if thats the case then everyone (including the thinking lag) is gonna know that all they have to do is move you off of one pair. and what do you know, a perfect scare card comes for that job.

[fnord_too]

I do not think I can get away from this hand the way it was played against the villain you described. It seems like chacking the turn will induce that bet almost every time because:

1. It looks very much like you could have missed, fired a continuation bet, and given up and
2. He does not commit himself with a pot size raise, so you have given him the opportunity to threaten your whole stack while not risking his.

I think if you check this turn, you are committed to the hand. I think you should probably push here since if an overcard or club comes on the turn you will have even less of an idea of where you are at and will give villain the opportunity to get away from a loser he may call with on the flop.

If you lead, your decision then is tough if he raises. If he calls, I think you are committed to the hand and need to push the turn, since there is a great chance he will put you to the test if you blink.

I really don't see how you don't lose your stack here if you are beaten, since going away looks to me like you are just inviting him to take it in stages rather than all at once.