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  #1  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:12 AM
Gigabet Gigabet is offline
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Default Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

I opened in the cutoff with AdQd, JJ Liu makes it 140k from the button. Blinds fold. Flop is K66 rainbow. I check, JJ Liu bets 100k, I call. Turn is offsuit 2, I bet 200k, JJ calls. River is another offsuit blank, I shove for the rest of her stack(about 600k more). She calls and opens KK.

Earlier in the night, she folded KK face up on a flop of T66, with preflop action like this, phil laak opens utg for a standard raise. JJ Liu reraises big from the button, folds to Laak who calls. Laak leads the flop for 75k(with around 500k behind before the bet, I believe.) JJ raises Laak to 175k, with around 900k behind her. Laak shoves the rest of his stack in. She thinks for 10 minutes and then mucks KK face up.

Side Note: I had never been caught bluffing by anyone at the table, and JJ had consistently shown that she respected my raises, she knew I was out of line alot preflop, but postflop, she never saw anything from me that could be construed as "way out of line."


I had actually been playing relatively passive post flop with the intention of getting into a situation with her such as this. My thinking was that if I could get to the river without allowing the pot to get way out of line, but still large enough to make it worth my while, then I could get her to fold everything but the near nuts. We both very lighthearted with each throughout the night, and joked and talked through different hands as they were being played out....I really believe she is folding everything but the hand she had and quads, of course.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:18 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

Yea she probably doesn't call with less than a K... but how often is she going to be getting to this point without a K.

I think the flop was where to try something. She bets small w/ 100k.. why not try to take it from her here with a checkraise.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:24 AM
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

Exit,

Against a guy like giga who has shown a willingness to gamble quite a bit preflop, I don't think it's unreasonable to think a player as described can fold AK or AA here, putting Giga on a 6. Hands like KJ/KQ surely fold imo, unless she has a specific read he's bluffing.

Some people commented on how "dumb" a call he made preflop w/ 75 earlier in the tourney. When a player makes "dumb" calls like that, it's much easier to win hands like this since his opponent has to give serious consideration to him having a 6 with a line like this.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:42 AM
ZeeJustin ZeeJustin is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

FWIW, I like the play a lot given the info at hand.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:45 AM
Gigabet Gigabet is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

That 75 hand wasn't posted correctly, BTW. I did not call an all in bet, I would have folded in that situation. Preflop action is described well enough, but postflop here is how it happened. I checked, Patrick bet 20k, I made it 60k, he then reraised me to 160k. I then pushed, and he instantly called. Immediately I thought he was going to turn over top set when he called so quickly, and was relieved to see KJ. Very nice to win the toss in that spot, but with stacks as deep as ours were, I think that he would have the presence of mind to fold that hand, or others similar. I never am pushing in that spot, against a good player, with the intention of getting called by a worse hand, I just wanted to pick up the pot. I don't feel comfortable playing that large of a pot, when not in position, to the river with a hand as vulnerable as mine was. Patrick definitely is going to put enough pressure on me in later streets to make it nearly impossible to think that my hand could be good, unless it improves.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2005, 06:48 AM
Exitonly Exitonly is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

i misread the flop. thought it was KK6. that makes this look a lot better. well, you're betting 600 into an around 800 pot.. so she has to fold .45% or more. so what hands can she have at this point that will definitely call. KK, 66, or a rare K6. so like 3 KK's 1 66 2 K6's. 6 hands that call, so even if we only get 6 QQ's and 3 AA's to fold it's profitable.

Looks good, but i'm not convinced enough to look for situations to trry it.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

Villain could interpret your turn bet as;

a)a bluff
b)a made hand which your leaving room to get away fromon the river
c)a made hand which your committed to

Your turn & river combo means
(a) is still possible
(b) kinda ruled out
(c) opponent may be doubtful(see below)

Do you think villain folds AK/AA if you lead the turn for ~ 300K?
Obviously the answer is no,or you would have bet this on the turn, but this leaves your turn & river combo looking a little suspicious.

With the hands you are meant to be value betting this river with (I suppose KK/6x) you would love AA/AK to be facing 16:5 rather than 15:6.

I don’t know your opponent, but a good player might see that your turn bet was engineering the betting so that if you are called you could still fold out AK on the river.
I guess this line of thinking hinges on whether your opponent thinks that you would have thought a 300K bet could fold out AA/AK, but I think most wouldn’t expect these hands to fold for that amount.

Then again I could be just talking *%$!.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:49 AM
beenben beenben is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

You open-limped? and were raised pre-flop? And her raise was to about 10% of her stack? The blinds were 20k/40k? That information would be helpful.

I don't like the flop call- she raised pre-flop and bets out. Raise to find out where you're at or fold.

Then you bet the turn when she's likely to know that a 2 didn't help anybody. And she flat calls which can be a sign of strength, especially from a good player. Likewise, on the river, another card that isn't likely to help anyone and now you push? I don't know how much you had her covered by so I don't know whether to recommend a check or a smaller bet.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2005, 08:54 AM
TheJackal TheJackal is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

Good job bluffing off 1 million in chips. The river bet is completely pointless, She has put in half her stack and I'd say she has AK, KK, AA, and she is calling you 100% of the time. She reraised preflop, bet the flop, called the turn, do you really think she is folding the river? I concede the pot after the turn and move onto the next hand.
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2005, 09:14 AM
HoldingFolding HoldingFolding is offline
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Default Re: Hand from Bellagion 5 Diamond

FYI: The Mouth critiques this hand here
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