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#1
10-10-2005, 01:11 PM
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Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
Here's the situation:
Live game. 7-handed, $20 buyin, .25/50 blinds Hero is holding A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in MP. One limper in front of me, I make it 1.50 to go. Everyone folds except the big blind, who just calls. Villain is very aggressive, but not an awful player. Will call down some big hands with top pair, medium kicker. For the most part, a LAG. Pot (about $4). Flop comes: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Villain bets $4, Hero raises to $8 Villain pushes all-in for something like $15 more (pot is now at $24) Hero ??? Also, what do you do in the same situation with nut draw and bottom pair instead of midpair? ... (I folded here. The villain was VERY aggressive, which made me want to call. Did I make the right move?) 
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#3
10-10-2005, 01:34 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
3:1 on a call, and you must be joking when you said you folded. [/ QUOTE ] How is it 3:1 ? It's a $15 call into a $24 pot. That's not even 1:2. The way I figured it, I had: - 9 diamonds that could help me - a few outs that could come up with some straight draws (would need runner runner) - 2 T's that would give me trips - other options for 2 pair (4 outs) With flush overlap, I'm looking at about 14-15 outs here. The pot odds aren't great, as he's fully committed and I'm getting no implied odds at all. thoughts?
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#4
10-10-2005, 01:42 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
How is it 3:1 ? It's a $15 call into a $24 pot. That's not even 1:2 [/ QUOTE ] My math: $4 in the pot + Villain bets $4 = $8 Hero raises to $8 = $16 Villain raises another $15 = $31 Hero must call another $7 to match villain's bet. Looks like a little over 4:1 to me.
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#5
10-10-2005, 02:07 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How is it 3:1 ? It's a $15 call into a $24 pot. That's not even 1:2 [/ QUOTE ] My math: $4 in the pot + Villain bets $4 = $8 Hero raises to $8 = $16 Villain raises another $15 = $31 Hero must call another $7 to match villain's bet. Looks like a little over 4:1 to me. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhh, you might want take a look at your math again. I thought a redraw is where, e.g., even if your opponent "outdraws" you, you still have outs to re-outdraw him. Can someone please correct or confirm this?
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#6
10-10-2005, 02:18 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hero must call another $7 to match villain's bet. Looks like a little over 4:1 to me. [/ QUOTE ] Uhhh, you might want take a look at your math again. [/ QUOTE ] Ugh! You're right. Hero must call another $15 into a $31 pot. Closer to 2:1, which is a whole nother story.
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#7
10-10-2005, 02:07 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 3:1 on a call, and you must be joking when you said you folded. [/ QUOTE ] How is it 3:1 ? It's a $15 call into a $24 pot. That's not even 1:2. The way I figured it, I had: - 9 diamonds that could help me - a few outs that could come up with some straight draws (would need runner runner) - 2 T's that would give me trips - other options for 2 pair (4 outs) With flush overlap, I'm looking at about 14-15 outs here. The pot odds aren't great, as he's fully committed and I'm getting no implied odds at all. thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] you have 14 outs against a one pair hand like QJs and are actually a 50.5 to 49.5 favorite. if he has QT, you still have 44.5% equity with 12 outs to win. if he has QQ, then you only have 9 outs minus redraws for his full house...still 29% equity. looks like the pot is $31 with $15 to call. it's only slightly -EV if he has a set and +EV any other time you're behind.
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#9
10-10-2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
[ QUOTE ]
just call or raise more on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd prefer to raise more, and I have no problems w/ being all in w/ these stacks and this opponent.
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#10
10-10-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: Nut flush draw w/ mid pair....
I wouldn't think for more than a second before I called this against a PASSIVE player. Against a LAG there'd be no thought involved (well...maybe a little).
You have: 5 outs to two pair or trips 9 outs to the nut flush a redraw to the nut straight Yeah, some of these outs overlap so you don't really have 16 full outs, but I don't really want to do the math, and you get the point heh. Last but not least, against a LAG you could very well be good with just the middle pair you already have.
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