My mind says fold, my body says no - Part 2

Sent · #1 08-30-2004, 11:11 PM

Somewhat similar situation to my last post with 2 people cold calling my flop raise. Of course the loosest person on the table has it.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (15 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows 7h Kc (two pair, kings and threes).
Hero shows Tc Kd (two pair, kings and tens).
UTG+1 shows 4d 3h (three of a kind, threes).
MP3 shows Jc Ks (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 19 BB. 

Called the raise PF knowing it would be 7 handed, I could hit the flop.

-Sent

btspider · #2 08-30-2004, 11:56 PM

before looking at the results:
PF: bleh. tough situation. i think i fold this even with company. I'm concerned about being dominated and playing offsuit big cards out of position against a large field.
flop: sure, put people to the test. see what the button thinks about his hand.
turn: yep, you beat all K's now.
river: 3 opponents, not enough kings to go around. i'd bet since no one raised on the turn. i expect at least one K to be out there. i don't see a 3, but with all those callers, perhaps a random pocket pair.

after the results.. oh yeah, you posted this so of course that card is out there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sent · #3 08-30-2004, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

after the results.. oh yeah, you posted this so of course that card is out there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol horrible run lately. Yeah PF was close, but I thought I was getting good odds with 7 people in it and I could check/fold the flop easily enough.

-Sent

cdriver · #4 08-31-2004, 07:45 AM

fold pf.. weak, offsuit hands, out of position do not do well against many players..this is a significant looser here

Mons · #5 08-31-2004, 12:27 AM

Preflop: Fold. Too many players to play KT, especially unsuited and after a raise.

Flop: Fold. This situation is the reason you want to fold preflop. Now someone has the 3 and the board looks enticing to you.

Turn: I don't really know what to do here as I would have folded preflop and then definitely flop. I guess since you've taken it this far you have to call it down hoping for the full since you've got odds.

River: Fold.

Just take away from this why you should fold KTo!

D.H. · #6 08-31-2004, 08:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold. Too many players to play KT, especially unsuited and after a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So far your advice is OK.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: Fold. This situation is the reason you want to fold preflop. Now someone has the 3 and the board looks enticing to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is NOT good advice. You don't fold your top pair with a decent kicker because you're afraid of someone having a 3. The raise is good.

[ QUOTE ]
River: Fold.

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You have the other kings beaten and noone has shown any sign of having a 3. This is a value bet.

detruncate · #7 08-31-2004, 02:06 AM

I'd fold pre-flop, raise the flop, bet the turn, bet the river.

Quercus · #8 08-31-2004, 02:34 AM

KTo from early position is a fold for me - no matter how many in the pot. Just too easy to get dominated and throw a lot of dead money into the pot.

On the flop, I'd feel even worse. Seven players gives lots of opportunities for someone to have the 3. If no one has the three, the odds are good there is a King with a bigger kicker our there.

When the T hits on the turn, I'd feel a bit better, but still be worried that some dork was slowplaying his set of threes.

On the river, the 2 is a rag, so I'd probably figure if I'd come this far, I might as well keep going, and bet rather than check.

At the end of the hand, I'd do the following:

* Swear (again) never to play this hand from the BB, unless I'm coming over the top on a blind steal play.
* Throttle UTG+1 for slowplaying those trips. Even time I try to slowplay a set, I get sucked out on the river.
* Make a note to try and always find what table the SB is playing at, and try to join those games. He played K7, he'd make a good friend.
* Note thatn MP3 coldcalled preflop with KJo. He didn't raise on the flop, so passively plays marginal hands. Another great tablemate for future reference.

Of course, having said all that, someone will no doubt run a simulation and say that the KTo from BB is EV+0.000000001 over a million hands and make me look bad.

kenewbie · #9 08-31-2004, 04:25 AM

I dont understand why you are check/calling the river.

k

crockett · #10 08-31-2004, 08:04 AM

You lost me on this hand.

I:

PF: Fold

Flop: Fold, this is not my flop. But I think raise is the second choice. This is a good example of how position is important. Your raising into the pre-flop raiser, I think you only raise if you can instantly set your hand down if he 3-bets. If you do not, then I think you put a calling station sticker on your head and run around the house for an hour.

Turn: Bet…now you got a hand.

River: Bet….why check/call the deuce, no straight, no flush, if two pair was good on the turn, it is even better now or were you hoping for a K or T? Again, I think this is the dangerous “I’m probably not the best hand here, but I sure would like to see a showdown for as cheap as possible, thinking.” I’m working so hard not to play like this.

This is why I always try to watch the hands closely after I fold. So I can say “Man, I avoided that mess!”

I’m no expert, just my thoughts.