Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Mid-High Stakes Shorthanded

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:07 AM
Zele Zele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 332
Default Re: A9o utg

The difference between this and the archetypal WAWB situation is he will call you with quite a bit when you are WA. He'll definitely call you with any pair, he'll definitely call with a straight draw, and he's likely to call you with K high. Plus he might call with any 2 other cards for whatever reason these guys have.

Indeed, against almost any other kind of player the turn check is standard, but this guy is very loose (you have decent value on a turn call), and passive (he's less likely to bluff the river.) As Victor said, if he will bluff a missed draw then checking the turn is better, but given the information we have I don't think he will all that much.

[ QUOTE ]
There was no way a free card would hurt me

[/ QUOTE ]

True, this is not about hand protection; it is about value.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:26 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: A9o utg

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between this and the archetypal WAWB situation is he will call you with quite a bit when you are WA. He'll definitely call you with any pair, he'll definitely call with a straight draw, and he's likely to call you with K high. Plus he might call with any 2 other cards for whatever reason these guys have.

Indeed, against almost any other kind of player the turn check is standard, but this guy is very loose (you have decent value on a turn call), and passive (he's less likely to bluff the river.) As Victor said, if he will bluff a missed draw then checking the turn is better, but given the information we have I don't think he will all that much.

[ QUOTE ]
There was no way a free card would hurt me

[/ QUOTE ]

True, this is not about hand protection; it is about value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Word. I like your explanation. Your thoughts are appreciated.

~efficacy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:42 AM
Lmn55d Lmn55d is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5
Default Re: A9o utg

I agree with Zele and think you miss value against a player this loose by checking
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:58 AM
geormiet geormiet is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 19
Default Re: A9o utg

I play the turn the same. I also like a river raise.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:10 AM
wackjob wackjob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 50
Default Re: A9o utg

I will bet this every time on the turn. Make the fish pay and don't give free cards - its basic poker. If he raises the turn, you reevaluate. Most passive fish will not bluff this river anyways so you are missing bets.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-29-2005, 04:58 AM
Victor Victor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: cleveland
Posts: 68
Default Re: A9o utg

there are quite a few gutterballs out there but, yea, i was wrong when i said "missed draw." i meant that he may bluff any 2 cards.

i like your line of thought on the fact that no pairs will hurt you here.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:20 AM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 366
Default Re: A9o utg

I bet here and give the guy with 60 VPIP the opportunity to ply his primary trade, which is coming up with reasons to call. It should also be noted that a player with 60 VPIP and 1.0 AF is not passive postflop.

Cartman
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:32 AM
kiddo kiddo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Europe
Posts: 335
Default Re: A9o utg

[ QUOTE ]
I bet here and give the guy with 60 VPIP the opportunity to ply his primary trade, which is coming up with reasons to call. It should also be noted that a player with 60 VPIP and 1.0 AF is not passive postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, he will call with a lot and yep, he could very well checkraise with a lot more then J on turn.

He will call with a worse hand much, much more often then he will pick up something little on river that now is worth calling with. And the chance he got J is not a lot bigger now then it was preflop when he coldcalled, his flopcall means nothing.

Got nothing to do with this thread, but u write good posts cartman.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:07 AM
cartman cartman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 366
Default Re: A9o utg

[ QUOTE ]
Got nothing to do with this thread, but u write good posts cartman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I very much appreciate the compliment coming from you.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-29-2005, 08:32 PM
dave44 dave44 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4
Default Re: A9o utg

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Problem is you can't do this with regularity because your opponents won't

a. ...
b. fold when you bet this turn with hands like QJ where you'd really like a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a typo? I don't think anyone would ever fold QJ if I bet the turn... most likely they'd be C/R'ing me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, I meant to give an example of a hand you'd raise preflop, have nothing on the turn, but bet again hoping for a fold. I'm not saying he has QJ- I'm saying you hope he folds hands that definitely have outs and may even be ahead of whatever garbage you hold.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.