Stars 3R - Nut straight - straight flush redraw - bad line?

#1 12-01-2005, 11:31 PM

In the Stars 3r after the first break. MP1 has been a complete donkey. SB has been very solid and literally running over the table for as long as I've been there. He's shown down solid hands and is a thinking player.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 (t4800)
MP2 (t2702)
Hero (t10975)
CO (t8280)
Button (t14340)
SB (t61907)
BB (t8795)
UTG (t13805)
UTG+1 (t6055)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t400, 1 fold, Hero calls t400, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t1600) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t1600) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets t400, BB calls t400, MP1 calls t400, Hero raises to t2800, SB calls t2400, BB folds, MP1 calls t2400.

River: (t10400) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets t9200, MP1 folds, Hero <?????>

hemstock · #2 12-01-2005, 11:42 PM

He didn't raise the flop so I don't think a set is likely given your read. Does he really complete the BB with garbage like 25? I think you really have to call.

yoadrians · #3 12-01-2005, 11:44 PM

If he did make a set on the flop, I find it hard to believe he'd check it with those two hearts.

I'm calling this bet.

#4 12-02-2005, 01:09 AM

I don't see any way to play it other than your line and a call.

I think you see monsters under the bed if you think differently.

#5 12-02-2005, 08:47 AM

Well here's my thinking. On the flop I'm happy to take a free card. In retrospect I'm guessing that the SB was looking to check raise the flop instead of bet out and was probably happy to see no one bet out. The 5 is obviously a scare card, but not everyone would notice that and how can you truthfully put me on 76s (which is why I played the hand in the first place). My turn raise was hoping to get a caller. I was willing to gamble on someone outdrawing me on the river with the hopes that my hand would hold up and I'd win a big pot. I made a pot sized raise hoping to drive out at least one person and if I won the pot there that's fine too. I didn't expect the SB and MP1 to both come along for the ride. The SBs river bet looked like a blocking bet to me and I couldn't have possibly put him on a full house having not raised once in the hand. I had seriously put him on an overpair or TPTK with 2 pair made on the river. He turned over 44 for a flopped set, rivered full house and MHING.

Does anyone see any flaws in my thinking throughout this hand? Did I make a mistake by not pushing on the turn or was my raise sufficient enough that drawing hands SHOULD have folded? I seriously thought that my raise wouldn't leave the villain in this hand with enough odds OR implied odds to call without a monster draw and, as far as I knew, I had the monster draw on the board. Do you agree that pushing the turn reduces the value I can get out of my made hand?

#6 12-02-2005, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well here's my thinking. On the flop I'm happy to take a free card. In retrospect I'm guessing that the SB was looking to check raise the flop instead of bet out and was probably happy to see no one bet out. The 5 is obviously a scare card, but not everyone would notice that and how can you truthfully put me on 76s (which is why I played the hand in the first place). My turn raise was hoping to get a caller. I was willing to gamble on someone outdrawing me on the river with the hopes that my hand would hold up and I'd win a big pot. I made a pot sized raise hoping to drive out at least one person and if I won the pot there that's fine too. I didn't expect the SB and MP1 to both come along for the ride. The SBs river bet looked like a blocking bet to me and I couldn't have possibly put him on a full house having not raised once in the hand. I had seriously put him on an overpair or TPTK with 2 pair made on the river. He turned over 44 for a flopped set, rivered full house and MHING.

Does anyone see any flaws in my thinking throughout this hand? Did I make a mistake by not pushing on the turn or was my raise sufficient enough that drawing hands SHOULD have folded? I seriously thought that my raise wouldn't leave the villain in this hand with enough odds OR implied odds to call without a monster draw and, as far as I knew, I had the monster draw on the board. Do you agree that pushing the turn reduces the value I can get out of my made hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely see monsters under the bed.

I agree with your flop thinking.

On the turn, you're probably correct to worry about being outdrawn because of the two callers, but your major concern should be getting money into the pot when you have a huge hand that's going to be impossible to fold on any river. I think you did that successfully.

On the river, my thinking would that a heart didn't fall and my hand is now good 90% of the time. It sucks that this was the other 10% of the time, but you shouldn't regret the call. SB could have 99, 8x, 23, 26, 27, 2x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He could even be on a double-barrelled bluff.

Basically, your hand is way too good to consider folding with your stack size.

#7 12-02-2005, 10:00 AM

Thanks Noah. I definitely don't see monsters under the bad and I did make the crying call knowing that the villain could easily turn over anything from TPTK to an overpair more often than the full house. I'm just trying to make sure that there aren't any clear signs that I missed saying I should have folded to his river bet. I didn't think so at the time and I still don't think so, just wanted to check with the posters here that I respect. Thanks for taking the time to read and answer.