Is it me, or is the NBA as meaningless as the NHL?

[RunDownHouse]

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I'm a HUGE sports fan.

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I don't know why you said this when you don't like hockey, basketball, or soccer. I guess you meant that you really like football, but don't really understand other sports.

[jakethebake]

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I'm a HUGE sports fan.

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I don't know why you said this when you don't like hockey, basketball, or soccer. I guess you meant that you really like football, but don't really understand other sports.

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He meant he's a huge sports fan that only likes good sports, which is the same thing as not like hockey, basketball, or soccer. His claim was perfectly legitimate.

[hoopsie44]

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Not even close. He might get in eventually. He doesn't deserve it.

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You're kidding, right ?

[Bulldog]

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Not even close. He might get in eventually. He doesn't deserve it.

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You're kidding, right ?

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From the Sports Guy:

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We need to tackle Reggie Miller today, if only because I can't imagine anything worse than feuding with people in Indiana – the same place that gave us Hickory High, Letterman and Bird. Here's how I described Reggie in yesterday's Cowbell:



"A memorable offensive player who also happens to be the most overrated 'superstar' of the past 20 years, but that's a whole other story."



Well, Pacers fans went crazy. And I understand why – they love Reggie and it seemed like I was taking a shot at him. Actually, I was taking a shot at Kenny and Charles on "Inside the NBA," who kept throwing around the word "superstar" in their postgame discussion about Reggie and the Pacers on Monday night. Calling Reggie Miller a "superstar" is so ridiculous, I'm not even sure how to properly react. Just because the referees give someone "superstar" treatment doesn't make him a superstar. But since I enjoyed Reggie's career so much, I want to tackle this rationally.



Here were the superstars from Reggie's era: MJ, Bird, Barkley, Magic, Isiah, Hakeem, Robinson, Mailman, Moses, Ewing, Shaq, Kobe, Iverson, Garnett and Duncan. Each of them was a mortal lock for the All-Star team in his prime, whereas there wasn't any point in Reggie's career when you could have anointed him one of the top two shooting guards in the league. For instance, check out the All-Star Game appearances and 1st/2nd-team All-NBA appearances for everyone on the aformentioned list (as well as Stockton, Pippen and Dominique):



**SUPERSTARS FROM REGGIE'S ERA**



Jordan – All-Star (14) ... 1st-team (10) ... 2nd-team (1).
Bird – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (9) ... 2nd-team (2).
Magic – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (9) ... 2nd-team (1).
Hakeem – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (6) ... 2nd-team (3).
Barkley – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (5) ... 2nd-team (5).
Isiah – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (3) ... 2nd-team (2).
Moses – All-Star (12) ... 1st-team (4) ... 2nd-team (4).
Robinson – All-Star (10) ... 1st-team (4) ... 2nd-team (2).
Mailman – All-Star (14) ... 1st-team (11) ... 2nd-team (2).
Ewing – All-Star (11) ... 1st-team (1) ... 2nd-team (6).
Shaq – All-Star (11) ... 1st-team (6) ... 2nd-team (2).
Stockton – All-Star (10) ... 1st-team (2) ... 2nd-team (6).
Dominique – All-Star (8) ... 1st-team (1) ... 2nd-team (4).
Pippen – All-Star (7) ... 1st-team (3) ... 2nd-team (2).



**SUPERSTARS CURRENTLY IN THEIR PRIMES**



Kobe – All-Star (6) ... 1st-team (3) ... 2nd-team (2).
Iverson – All-Star (5) ... 1st-team (2) ... 2nd-team (3).
Garnett – All-Star (7) ... 1st-team (3) ... 2nd-team (2).
Duncan – All-Star (6) ... 1st-team (7) ... 2nd-team (0).



**REGGIE'S NUMBERS**



Miller – All-Star (5) ... 1st-team (0) ... 2nd-team (0).

Does that mean he wasn't a great player? Of course not. Like Worthy, McHale, Dumars, DJ, Drexler, Pippen, Dominique and even Stockton, he cracked that class of "Guys Who Had Great Careers & Weren't Quite Franchise Players." Which isn't a bad thing. With MJ removed from the picture, Reggie would have been remembered as the premier clutch shooter of his era, a superb scorer who saved his best for last (making him a significant weapon on a good team). His flair for The Moment made him more fun to watch in big games than just about anyone else – Reggie was the closest thing in the NBA to having a Hall of Fame baseball closer, someone who could absolutely become the crunch-time scorer on a top-four team (which Indiana was in '94, '95 and '00). If Indiana was protecting a lead in the final minute, you couldn't foul him because he was a mortal lock to drain both free throws. And nobody – repeat: nobody – received more ridiculous calls over the last 12 years, so the officials certainly enjoyed watching him.



But here's the thing: Superstars carry their teams on both ends of the floor, and superstars can affect games on nights when they can't make a shot. Reggie may have been a reliable scorer, but he was also a subpar defensive player who didn't rebound or create shots for other players, someone who needed to play in an offense constructed in a specific way so he could succeed. Since Reggie could never consistently beat good defenders off the dribble, the Pacers have always sprinted him around a series of picks – almost like a mouse going through a maze – to spring him for open shots. Their big men needed to keep setting those picks, their point guard needed to kill time on the top of the key waiting for him to get open ... basically, everyone else was tailoring their games to his game. And I'm not sure you can win a title that way.



In fairness to Reggie, he was always asked to do too much for his team. Unlike Stockton, McHale, Worthy, Drexler, DJ and Pippen, he never played with a teammate who was better than him, the biggest reason Indiana never won a title in his prime. Reggie also wins points for excelling over an exceptionally long period of time, and since he was such a unique player, it felt like he had more of a historical impact. The guy was an absolute assassin in the last three minutes – nobody had bigger stones than him. He made enough game winners over the years that NBA TV ran a Reggie Mini-Marathon earlier this season. And he pretty much saved professional basketball in Indiana, which is why everyone loves him so much there.



Still, how do those things make him a superstar? In his prime, Reggie gave you 21 a night, with 3 rebounds, 3 assists and some thoroughly mediocre defense. During his best playoff run in 1995, he averaged 25.5 points over 17 games as the Pacers fell one game short of the Finals. In the 2000 playoffs, he averaged 24 points over 22 games as the Pacers lost to the Lakers in six. He was what he was – a streaky shooting guard who scared the hell out of you when it mattered. On a very good team, he could be the difference between "45 wins and out in the first round" and "55 wins and playing in the conference finals." But that doesn't make him any different than Pippen, Drexler, Worthy or even Dennis Rodman.



Was Reggie Miller a great player? Absolutely. Did he have a great career? No question about it. Was he terrifying at the end of games? You betcha.



Then again, so was Andrew Toney ... and he wasn't a superstar, either.



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[Bulldog]

Having said all that, he was a pretty good college player too. The media loved him as well, so he may get in, but he still won't be deserving.

[McGahee]

It's not surprsing that this thread turned into a flame fest, but 90%+ of suburban America agrees with you. The ratings speak for themselves.
NFL & College Hoops rule and it's not even close.

[shadyridr]

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Also, Reggie Miller was NOT a superstar. Zero MVPs, zero first-team NBAs.

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But one first ballot Hall of Fame induction.

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bs

[Bober1]

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I'm a HUGE sports fan. I live and breathe NFL and have played sports my whole life. But nothing made me happier than seeing the NHL season cancelled. Soccer on ice? Who needs it?

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Hockey and basketball are sports whether or not you accept them or think they are "legitimate" sports. How can you call your self a HUGE sports fan when you dislike such a HUGE portion of portion of them? Are you a HUGE sports fan that only likes 60% of them (the major ones)? lol

[Nottom]

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"A memorable offensive player who also happens to be the most overrated 'superstar' of the past 20 years, but that's a whole other story."

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Wouldn't the lack of all-NBA team selections make him one of the most underrated players of his generation?

Certainly as opposed to someone like ...
Dominique – All-Star (8) ... 1st-team (1) ... 2nd-team (4).

[CallMeIshmael]

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I don't know why you said this when you don't like hockey, basketball, or soccer. I guess you meant that you really like football, but don't really understand other sports.

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Exactly.