Kill games on ultimate bet

Is there any change that should be made if playing the kill games at ultimate bet? It seems like an interesting variation of the game, but it sounds like it punishes you for winning pots.

[threeonefour]

nothing significant really technically speaking you need a slightly larger bankroll, playing VERY marginal hands in EP may become negative with the 1/2 kill button, this mistake is so small and so infequent that if you never take it into account it won't really affect your bottom line. its kind of like the bunching effect, it affects the game, but so little that there is almost no adjustment for it.

don't be a nit just jump in and GAMBOOL

[ QUOTE ]
it affects the game, but so little that there is almost no adjustment for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you are playing in a 3-6 kill game and the upcoming hand is a kill, you shouldn't treat the hand as a raised preflop and tighten up appropriately? Or would you play your "normal" style in a kill hand, just like a non-kill?

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it affects the game, but so little that there is almost no adjustment for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you are playing in a 3-6 kill game and the upcoming hand is a kill, you shouldn't treat the hand as a raised preflop and tighten up appropriately? Or would you play your "normal" style in a kill hand, just like a non-kill?

[/ QUOTE ]
what i said about the mariginal hands was concerning when you have the 1/2 kill button.

in a kill pot:
i'd treat money posted by the 'killer' like what it is, a third blind. you always assume the BB has a random hand, because thats what he has, the killer has the same thing.

so you would only make the adjustments that are pretty obvious. ie. fold fold fold killer check fold fold and you are on the button next to act. well you can raise an awfully wide range here because you are basically up against 3 blinds. in fact you might be even better than being up against 3 blinds because the killer check which likely indicates a less than premium hand. though many a player wouldn't raise anything in the killer's position because no one has entered the pot yet and if he raises people have to call two BIG bets(at the non-kill stakes) cold.

think of it like this if the killer is posting UTG for example. that is exactly the same (well not exactly but damn near exactly) as a game played w/ 3 blinds. it just so happens you are playing 6/12 with 3 blinds instead of 3/6 with 2 blinds this hand or whatever.

EDIT: to answer your question in short. no i wouldn't treat a kill pot as if it was raised and therefore tighten up accordingly. and yes i would play almost exactly the same game.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it affects the game, but so little that there is almost no adjustment for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you are playing in a 3-6 kill game and the upcoming hand is a kill, you shouldn't treat the hand as a raised preflop and tighten up appropriately? Or would you play your "normal" style in a kill hand, just like a non-kill?

[/ QUOTE ]

The are two primary reasons you tighten up against a raise: someone showed strength, and your pot odds/implied odds are worse. Obviously a kill blind didn't show any strength by posting. As to the pot odds, in a normal hand of 3/6 with a 1/3 blind structure, an openraiser is getting 4/6 on his money while an open limper gets 4/3. In a kill hand of this same game, an open raiser gets 10/12 (or 5/6) on his money while an open limper gets 10/6 (or 5/3), so your pot odds are actually better. For implied odds, the bets are doubled after the flop, and your initial investement entering the flop is exactly double what it would normally be so this doesn't change unless your opponents are tightening up in kill pots, which is entirely possible.

[PJM1206]

Some how it would seem that you would want better odds on your draws. It would seem to me that drawing hands more likely lead to the kill so.... If you have to pay a Kill Blind you are taking $$$ out of your draws. I am not sure how to adjust the pot odds for the reduced winnings but it would seem you should

[guyincognito210]

i usually loosened up in kill pots as i noticed many players where uncomfortable playing a Bigger pot, twice their normal game. I also fell like i get better reads on these people when they do play. ie they have a premium hand that felt they hadda play. I also think they would be less aggresive after the flop un improved with say AK then normal knowing the bigger bets to come. this is my experience only in B and M though, full kill. look for tighter play and do the opposite if you do notice it.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
Some how it would seem that you would want better odds on your draws. It would seem to me that drawing hands more likely lead to the kill so.... If you have to pay a Kill Blind you are taking $$$ out of your draws. I am not sure how to adjust the pot odds for the reduced winnings but it would seem you should

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't worry about it too much...this matters by at most a fraction of a BB since you'll sometimes win your kill blind back after posting it (how often depends on frequency of raised pots and how badly/passively the opposition plays after the flop). The only time I might fold based on this property is if I have a draw that isn't getting immediate odds but would normally be justifiable by implied odds (i.e. calling the turn with a gutshot getting 9-to-1 multiway)

[roueful]

If I've got the kill button, I basically knock 2/3 of the kill post out of the size of the current pot when calculating odds. Particularly something like a borderline river value bet when a call will push the pot into the kill zone.