Small Stakes Tournaments - Is This Profitable?

[avalanche201]

First and foremost this is not a bad beat post im not looking to cry here. Anyways, I know being a good poker player you are trying to make money off of bad poker players. The theory is that you are trying to make the most out of your good hands and thier bad calls. I am questioning if this is true in small stakes (no-limit) holdem tourneys.

This is mostly what i play. I feel i am a pretty good player study and play a lot along with dealing for a living. However I feel like when i am entering these things facing 8 out of 10 players being a landmine that can blow up my tourney like that! For instance if you are making plays that kill pot odds for another player, or if even the other players dont even understand outs. Thus i feel like im facing players that im making moves that they dont understand, and then i get blown up for it.

I wanted to give a couple of examples.....

This from tonight, I had 77 in early position (bb) so after having 4 callers i just limp and the bb checks. The blinds are 25/50 at this point so there is about 300 in the pot. The flop comes 472 two diamonds. Being in early position and almost undoubtebly against a flush draw i go in for my remaining 325 in chips essentially making any call only 1-3 pot odds (not good for a flush unless two callers). I get one call he has 86 (the gut shot strait). The next card is a 8 (no help) and ofcourse the river is the 5 blowing my 90% chance to win. PS I had this exact same thing happen last night as well but on the internet which i expect more as opposed to live.

Second example (also live small buy in tourney). I have 10 10 in early position (bb). Blinds at this point are 50/100. A person down the table raises to 300, one caller, and I call, thus making the pot around 950 bucks. The flop is
10 8 4 all clubs. Obviously a good and bad flop for me giving me trips but also the flush out there. I sit and ponder as i am first to act, and i decide nothing i can do and go in for my remaining 1350 (into the 1000) thinking even if i am up against the flush i have 9 outs on the turn and 12 on the river. The original raiser folds, and then i hear the most dreaded words "i have to gamble". The third to act goes in for his remaning 900, thus giving him a little better then 1-3 (950 + his 900 + 900 i have to call)with the ace of clubs. The turn is nothing, and ofcourse again the river kills my 80% chance to win.

So here we see two situations where I have the lead, and have more outs then the callers but yet i still loose.

The point here is, with only one bad call to take you out of a tournament, and a multitude of bad players, is playing these really profitable? If there is a sucessfull way then should it be done by being less agressive, or more? any thoughts would be appreciated

[PoBoy321]

Of course they can be profitable, but of course, MTT play is much higher variance than any other form of poker.

[A-Baum]

OP has a good point. The low limit tournaments I play in are absolute crapshoots for the first hour or so. A $5 or $10 tournament acts like a $2 r+a.

I played a $5 tournament the other day, and the third hand I get KK. I raise 5x the BB in MP and get called only by the UTG limper. Flop comes 8 4 2 rainbow. UTG goes all in, he has me covered by t10. I think for a minute and call, thinking there's no way he has AA, and I actually put him on A8. He has 86o. Turn is his money 6 and I don't get any help.

I don't think my all-in was bad, I was certainly ahead, but it's hands that are played like this that can ruin your tournament. I don't want to be weak and fold my hand here. So early on in these tournaments, you either double, triple, or quadruple up because it's all-in time, or you bust on in 800th place.

[Petteri]

This happens all the time. Yesterday I played Pacific 10000 $ (15 + 1,50 $ buy-in) This was 7th hand of tourney. Blinds were 10/20.

I got Ad As in UTG+1 and raised 120. I do not want many callers cause multiway pots are risky. I got 1 caller, loose player from MP3. Pot is 290.

Flop was 10h 8c 5h. Not too scary heads up. I bet 300. MP3 calls.

Pot is now 900.

Turn is Kd. I bet all-in. MP3 calls.

River is 9h.

MP3 shows 6h 3h.

I am out of tourney. I usually play very cautiously in the beginning of tourney, but with AA I took chance.

OK, it is only 15+1,50 $ buy-in. After that I went to juicy 8+0,80 $ 20 player sit-out and finished in prizes as usual.

I seem to be unlucky in Pacific 10000 $, I have played 3 times.

First time I was 51st after I flopped trips, but lost to better kicker(idiotic mistake though, cause 50 players got prizes).

Second time I was a bit stack troubled and got AA and went all-in pre-flop against 66. Opponent got set. I was 70th.

Now Third time this 500th place.

I hope my luck will turn.

[PhillyEdB]

other posters might disagree with me however;

1. you shoud have pushed all in PF in the BB with your 7's to eliminate the field, your 86 must likely would have folded.

2. With a raise to 3x the BB and a caller your tens are behind, fold PF.

Thats my humble advise.

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
2. With a raise to 3x the BB and a caller your tens are behind, fold PF.

Thats my humble advise.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW...and it's "advice" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[meow_meow]

This may not be a bad beat post, but what you are essentially doing is complaining about bad play from opponents.
C'mon. Both of those times, if you knew what your opponent had and could decide for them whether they should call or fold, you'd opt for them to call.

[murfnyc]

Hand 1: With 7 BB's left, you should never limp....either push or fold

Hand 2: In low limit buy-ins, I think your TT is an easy-push (depending on your stack size). You will usually take it down right there and even if you get 1 caller, you are usually ahead of the range of hands of either of these players would have in a low limit buy-in. This is slightly read dependant, but against unknowns in a small buy-in tourney, I push every time.

Lastly, re-read your question. You are asking if its profitable to play poker when people call your all-ins as siginifcant underdogs. The obvious answer is its very profitable.

But, the problem with lower-limit buy-ins is fast blinds & small starting stacks & usually very large fields, all of which creates huge variance. So, short-term results can be discouraging. Keep putting your money in the middle as a huge favorite and you'll be fine.

[etgryphon]

The question you need to ask yourself is what if you died and are now in the afterlife where you play these two hands continually for eternity, You have an infinate bankroll, but the rules are you can spent only the money you win on anything you like.

Is it heaven or hell?

-Gryph

[Sadat X]

When your opponents make bad plays (particularly calling with unfavorable odds), you win money. Simple as that. The more of these players there are, the more money you make - so I don't agree with your theory.