a fold ive never seen before

vkotlyar · #1 07-30-2005, 03:12 AM

15-30 game. I fold my hand UTG. My friend opens next w AKo. A loose, gambling player cold calls. Mr. Fishy cold calls. A very inexperienced, tight, unimaginitive palyer 3 bets in MP. A very TIGHT player calls 3 bets cold in the CO. The BB calls. The gambling player has 6 chips in his hand, ready to cap. My friend shrugs, and folds.
Can this possibly be correct? I think i might fold AQo here, and def fold AJo, but can any1 justify this fold?
thanks for all the replies
V

Entity · #2 07-30-2005, 03:22 AM

Pretty bad fold IMO.

Equal · #3 07-30-2005, 03:32 AM

If I read correctly, we're looking at 6 players going to the flop for four bets. So you're friend is getting 11 to 1 on his call, presuming the crazy guy caps.

In a situation where one guy has AA, one KK, and the others reasonable hands, then your friend is definitely correct to fold, as his hand would only win 3-5% of the time.

However, if the tight player DOES NOT have AA, then it would be a horrible mistake to fold as his equity would be well over the number required to call - ~8%.

So the question is: how confident is he in his read that the player has AA?

mike l. · #4 07-30-2005, 04:01 AM

that's a great fold.

oreogod · #5 07-30-2005, 04:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
that's a great fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

....and Im waiting for Ashton Kutcher to pop out at any moment....any moment now.....

Because on the off chance u didnt set this up to Punk ppl, I agree (more like 80 percent agree, 20 percent contested.).

bobbyi · #6 07-30-2005, 05:05 AM

Cold-calling and then capping does not usually mean aces. That usually means "hey, there's a lot of people in, so it would be fun to cap it and build a pot." So I'm only particularly worried about the tight cutoff. He could easily have AA or KK, but he could also have other things. With all these people in, you can't fold.

TheBusiness · #7 07-30-2005, 03:17 PM

I wouldn't put the "very tight player" who cold calls 3 bets in position on AA. Unless he is a complete donk, he'd cap it there with AA. If he just cold called with AA, he messed up, and I wouldn't put the loose gambler type guy on AA either, cause he is most likely just building a pot and messing with people if he caps it there. Although a small percentage of the time someone does have AA in this pot, I think usually no one does, and its worth a call with these odds to see the texture of the flop with AK. If your friend has trouble with his postflop play, however, and wouldn't know how to proceed when he flops a pair on a dangerous board, then I can see good arguments for folding preflop to avoid getting into more trouble. But personally I'd find a call here.

mike l. · #8 07-30-2005, 05:55 PM

it's a great fold. in live hold em when people raise and reraise preflop they have a big hand unless they do it all the time in which case you ignore them. AKo is generally in a world of trouble here, and the times it's not most of the other aces and kings are occupied in other player's hands. so it's a really nice nuanced fold that only a perceptive player who reads situations well will sometimes find.

ive (correctly) folded AKo and AKs preflop and JJ several times, but never QQ. eventually though i plan to find that fold correctly. im looking forward to it actually. saving bets is fun.

mike l. · #9 07-30-2005, 05:59 PM

"I wouldn't put the "very tight player" who cold calls 3 bets in position on AA."

i see this all the time with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, etc in the hands of very tight players. they think they are being clever. or cautious. or both. you and i know they are retarded, but they dont know that. and they probably never will.

vmacosta · #10 07-30-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"I wouldn't put the "very tight player" who cold calls 3 bets in position on AA."

i see this all the time with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, etc in the hands of very tight players. they think they are being clever. or cautious. or both. you and i know they are retarded, but they dont know that. and they probably never will.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. I see this a lot too and it sends chills of joy up my spine when I call the cap UTG with my 88, spike a set, and watch them put in a ton of money when the have the worst of it! FYI- I used to find a fold for AKo here and would like to again in the future but its very rare. Suited and I definitely call, offsuit and I still call but wish I was as good as those who do fold.