Stalling just outside the money? What?

Key West · #1 05-30-2005, 11:31 PM

I'm not really a tournament player, but I'm an avid gambler and have a massive poker library, so I can hold my own and usually place in the money. I've played several tournaments, but had my first forray at a Party Poker speed-tournament, where the blinds go up every 30 minutes. It paid out 90 places (850 started) and I got 66th, but when it got down to about 120 or so players, the most bizarre thing happened. Everyone started stalling and taking forever to play their hands. This has probably been discussed before, because their logic is that the other tables are all doing it and therefore you lower your risk of being eliminated if you stall, too. This is such simpleton logic in my mind, there has to be a discussion somewhere on these forums about it, and if anyone would be good enough to point me to it I'd be much obliged. My contention is that, if a table didn't stall, they'd play more hands during the same blind levels, and therefore would be paying less per hand. This only works up to a certain blind level, past which it's pretty irrelevant since the blinds exceed everyone's stack size, but my thought are that, before that point, this strategy only helps the largest stacks, since they're the ones least affected by increasing blinds.

Thoughts? Links? First time I've ever considered this, so I'm prepared to be wrong, although I don't think I am. I'm sure there's an element of game theory and the prisoner's dilemma that I'm mis-applying, as is usually the case. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: I'd be especially interested to hear Mason Malmuth's opinion on this, as I just finished reading Gambling Theory and Other Topics, and loved it.

ZBTHorton · #2 05-30-2005, 11:47 PM

It can work both ways.

Most people here tend to not like it...but it can be proven to be a decent strategy in the right situation. Especially in a satellite.

slickpoppa · #3 05-30-2005, 11:53 PM

People who stall are sub-human retards

ZBTHorton · #4 05-31-2005, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
People who stall are sub-human retards

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part, I whole heartedly agree with this statement.

gr8vertical · #5 05-31-2005, 12:16 AM

Blinds go up every 30 minutes? Is that a typo or am I missing something.. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

brian8065 · #6 05-31-2005, 12:17 AM

Speed tournaments are like slot machines when it gets to the stalling phase. I never play them. My suggestion is to force the players to act withing 10 seconds. I believe stalling is the best strategy, so everyone does it. Party should really change something to eliminate this problem. I noticed that they are playing a lot less speed tournaments, and this is why.

McMelchior · #7 05-31-2005, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not really a tournament player, but [...] I can hold my own and usually place in the money

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody "usually place in the money".

Why do you feel you have to post such self-promoting BS? The only ones you're going to impress are posters with little experience, and it wasn't their comments you were looking for, right?

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

CardSharpCook · #8 05-31-2005, 12:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Speed tournaments are like slot machines when it gets to the stalling phase. I never play them. My suggestion is to force the players to act withing 10 seconds. I believe stalling is the best strategy, so everyone does it. Party should really change something to eliminate this problem. I noticed that they are playing a lot less speed tournaments, and this is why.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not stalling helps the bigger stacks. There was a thread on speed tourneys a while back - they are not slot machines, many players find them much more profitable than regular tournies. I think that "speed" tournies should be fast. I agree that you should limit actions to a 10 second window - no time bank.

CSC

brian8065 · #9 05-31-2005, 01:19 AM

I have played them. I played about 15, and finished in the money probably 3 times, but once it was 9th.

There is a phase when the blinds are more than anybody has, so everyone stalls. I also think some players stall at the very beginning too. During the stalling phase, an area of poker theory is at play that I must admit I do not fully understand.

I do well in the MTT, and did not like my experience with the speed tournaments.

If they forced the action from the start of the tournament to 10 seconds, then I am sure I would play them.

Pacific Poker has tournaments where the blinds go up much faster then Party's normal blinds. This is not a speed tournament though. Their tournaments take much less time than the normal Party Tournament.

taytsdad · #10 05-31-2005, 01:27 AM

Blinds go up every 3 minutes, not 30. And while stalling is annoying it is a necessary strategy in those tournaments. It's especially effective when it's done to avoid a blind altogether when a table break is coming in hopes of getting a more favorable chair on the next table. It's all about when you get the blind and can you cover the person on each side of you? I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've won 2 of them because they don't even resemble competitive poker in my opinion, especially when the blinds cover 95% of the field. They'd do well just to make those entire tournaments hand for hand.