Help me out here....

Piper Tim · #1 08-27-2005, 10:12 PM

I've posted a hand I played and my thought process with it. I reread the Protecting Hand section to try to analyze my play, but want more feedback.

This was a loose-passive (a mix of LPP and LAP) table for the most part. I applied a modified loose starting requirements (tighter than the loose SSHE requirements, but looser than the tight requirements) and try to limp in with A7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. When the raise comes, figure there will be at least 10 small bets. This is enough to justify calling the raise, correct?

I was pretty happy to flop middle pair with a backdoor flush draw and ace kicker. Two sevens, 3 aces, and the backdoor flush gives me what, about 6 maybe 7 outs? I bet out to protect my hand. Does it do so with the pot so large? Of the players left, one is LAP, one is LPP, and the other is new to the table. The LAP folds, making it three handed.

The pot is now pretty big. A diamond falls on the turn. I considered checking here, but I don't want it to get checked through. I bet out again and get raised. This concerns me, but the player has shown no aggression as yet. He may have a four, but I don't think it likely. I figure he is on a flush draw and reraise. I am sure folding here would be wrong and feel that reraising is better than calling. Correct or not? I suspect he is unlikely to fold with a large pot, but I was hoping to try to force the LPP out or make it costly for both players to stay in. But, at this point I only have middle pair but I think it is best. There is one overcard on the board, but aside from getting raised on the turn, it doesn't seem like it helps anybody. I can't place sb (LPP) on a hand as he plays almost everything (VPIP 85%).

I bet out again on the river. I thought about checking here, but like to be the one applying pressure and it is consistent with how I played earlier in the hand. Additionally, it would have been checked through. One folds, one calls.

So, how can you help me? Aside from folding preflop, which I would have done at a tighter table, what would you have done differently on each street and why? Are any of my decisions based on a flawed understanding of a concept? If so, what needs to be changed. These are the hardest hands for me to play but are critical for being able to win.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO (poster) raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (17 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB

#2 08-27-2005, 11:06 PM

You didn't say (I don't think) what sort of read you had on CO, who is the most important opponent here to be worried about. Was he the one new to the table?

After the turn raise by CO, who raised preflop, I'm wondering if he has a higher pocket pair than your 7's, or hit his pair of J's on the flop, and just didn't bother raising the flop. Lots of players do this for no apparent reason at .50/1.00, they slowplay top pair on the flop.

Pair of 7's is not exactly a powerhouse hand, if it were me, I'd have just called the turn raise and checked the river. I may not be right, though, perhaps someone more experienced than I am can comment.

(of course, the river play gives away that CO was probably on a flush draw, but we didn't know that on the turn or on the river bet)

#3 08-27-2005, 11:46 PM

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These are the hardest hands for me to play but are critical for being able to win.

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Why is that? I don't play A7s UTG and I am a "winning" player. why aren't you c/r the flop? Explain to me in less than 5 paragraphs what the hell you were thinking, maybe 2 sentences.

#4 08-28-2005, 12:50 AM

Betting out on the flop does not protect your hand. Your bet makes it 13SB, so any caller is getting 1:13 odds to chase, which means it is correct with draws as weak as a gutshot.

numeri · #5 08-28-2005, 12:56 AM

My thoughts...

preflop: Fine. I limp this every time on a table like yours.

flop: We can't protect here with this pot. The only type of protection we could do would be to check and hope to check/raise a late position bet. If the bet comes from your left, you'd have to just call. Everything plays differently after that.

turn: What do you think the CO is raising with? He raised pre-flop, just called the flop, and now is raising the turn. This is usually bad news for you. And you still only have second pair!

Slow down, tiger. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

#6 08-28-2005, 01:30 AM

Ok, I read through your essay here is what I have to say:

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This is enough to justify calling the raise, correct?

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big mistake to fold

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I was pretty happy to flop middle pair with a backdoor flush draw and ace kicker.

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I'd be happier if there was another spade [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I bet out to protect my hand.

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how does it do that?

[/ QUOTE ]A diamond falls on the turn.... I bet out again and get raised. This concerns me, but the player has shown no aggression as yet.

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maybe he is slowplaying something, maybe he has a four. You later state that
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can't place sb (LPP) on a hand as he plays almost everything (VPIP 85%).

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Think about this one

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I figure he is on a flush draw and reraise. I am sure folding here would be wrong and feel that reraising is better than calling.

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That is one hell of a read considering you can't put him on anything

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I suspect he is unlikely to fold with a large pot

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I do to

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I bet out again on the river. I thought about checking here, but like to be the one applying pressure and it is consistent with how I played earlier in the hand. Additionally, it would have been checked through.

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is that a bad thing? The only reason SB didn't raise you is because he is a LPP and doesn't know if his quad 4s beats you or not.

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So, how can you help me? Aside from folding preflop, which I would have done at a tighter table

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I would advise folding it at this table too

[ QUOTE ]
These are the hardest hands for me to play but are critical for being able to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

#7 08-28-2005, 01:44 AM

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a complete [censored], if you have questions, ask. Do you understand how betting out on that flop doesn't protect your hand?