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  #1  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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I am heads up against a player who is very aggressive. He raises almost every pot preflop and will bet out if he has anything, even 3rd pair

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So far seems like a standard for HU play. Aggressive play wins.

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I'm in the small blind/button with K7 hearts and raised frankly because I knew he would raise if I didn't.

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If this is really the only reason you raised perhaps you need some help with your HU play. Any king is good to start with HU, and I'm even raising trash hands in this spot so that I get action on my big hands.

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I made it 500 and he calls.

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Yuck, give him odds to call with almost any 2 here, eh? Raise more preflop, make him define his hand a little more - unless he's the type to completely disregard things like pot odds and make -EV calls.

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Now, he is a loose caller but he wouldn't just call any 2. He would call with SOME kind of hand, though, Even, say, 45 suited. By the way, if he had an ace or a pair, he would've reraised. OK, so the pot is 1K I now have 5700 and he has 4300.

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Oh but you gave him the right odds to call with lots of hands! That's the point here, he only needs about 40% equity here to make a call right. HU that includes lots of hands.

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Flop comes 10,7,2 all spades. He checks to me. What is the right play?

Things to consider:
1. He is very aggressive, so the fact that he checked means he seriously doesn't have anything. If he had a pocket or ace high he wouldve reraised me preflop. If he hit any pair on the flop, 2 pair, or even a set, he would've bet out even though I was the preflop raiser. So I was pretty sure that I was ahead. The only thing he has that currently beats me is if he flopped a flush.

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Monsters under the bed, huh? Bet already and see where you're at. You make your own case for it. Grow the nuts and put the chips out.

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2. I can't give him a free card because pretty much whatever comes on the turn is a scare card. Unless it's a 3,4, or 5 non spade, he could've improved. And if I check, he is guaranteed to bet the turn whatever he has, and I'll have no idea where I stand.

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Ok so you've made your own case in favor of betting. Remember that if villain isn't holding the hand you're playing scared of that he's thinking you could have that same hand. What's the problem here?

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3. Because he is very aggressive, he is capable of coming over the top of me if I make any bet, and so if I bet, say, the pot which is 1k, he could easily push on me and I won't be sure what to do. I'd probably fold.

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He could come over the top of any bet in any hand. Are you going to sit there until you have the nuts before putting another chip in the pot?

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4. I have 5700, he has 4300, pot is 1k. A push feels a little extreme. But if I bet 1500 or less, I know he'll push with any 2. What should I do???

Results to come later

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You already made your own case in favor or betting or pushing yourself. This isn't that tough of a decision, especially with a good read on your opponent like you had. If you really think you're ahead here then take the gamble and put out a bet. If he does push you're getting the right odds to call and it's not even close.

If you're not willing to play for villains whole stack you could always just check and give the pot to villain on his turn bet and give him the chiplead. That's what will happen if you don't bet and you know it.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:29 PM
citanul citanul is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

doing anything but the line which you are certain would lead to him pushing the flop with any hand is absurdity.

yes, he could have 2 overs and a spade, but that's just one of the million hands he could have. if you're saying he's playing 95% of all hands preflop, and htat he's pushing all of them over your weak raise, of course you run it out here.

"letting him know he has to gamble his whole tournament if he wants to play this pot" is similarly absurd. you're playing poker. making your opponent play correctly isn't the idea.

as another poster pointed out, get your story straight w.r.t. what you "of course" would have done to a flop push.

and finally, remember that "aggro players who bet everything that hits the flop down to 3rd pair" frequently have exactly one extra move in their arsenal, that being "check when i flop really really good, as the guy will of course assume i hit nothing." so checking here could mean nothing and could mean that he flopped a flush or something like that.

if you don't believe that he'll call preflop with a ton, you should say that.

if you don't believe he'll actually cr push on the flop over your bet with any 2 cards he saw the flop with, you should say that.

if you raise preflop here, you should also be telling us if you think there's an amount you can raise preflop that makes him fold more often.

your opponent seems to be a secondary ideal of hu opponent. the ideal being the one who just folds all the time. if he in fact checks whenever he has nothing, you should just win every hand that he doesn't hit.

if he has 2 overs and a flush draw, would he bet the flop?

c
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2005, 12:58 PM
schwza schwza is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 113
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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doing anything but the line which you are certain would lead to him pushing the flop with any hand is absurdity.

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i was tearing my hair out reading the thread. this is obviously correct. somebody please pokerstove K7 against any 2 on that board (or maybe a top 70% hand that's not a pp / Ax / KJ+ based on the pre-flop read). K7 has to be a very solid favorite.
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:10 PM
Melchiades Melchiades is offline
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Posts: 18
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

I did. And took away every hand that had a card that made a pair with the board. He has 70%+ equity, but maybe he is good enough to pass up on such small edges.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:21 PM
schwza schwza is offline
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Posts: 113
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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I did. And took away every hand that had a card that made a pair with the board. He has 70%+ equity, but maybe he is good enough to pass up on such small edges.

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if villain pushes a2s face up, hero is obviously correct to fold AQ. no doubt.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2005, 01:25 PM
Melchiades Melchiades is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 18
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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if villain pushes a2s face up, hero is obviously correct to fold AQ. no doubt.

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That should be pretty obvious. We all know that all in preflop is not real poker anyway.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2005, 04:44 PM
KingDan KingDan is offline
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Posts: 139
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

If he raises any two preflop, why not limp-reraise?
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2005, 05:06 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

lol, i dont understand this. NO ONE has a problem with betting 4.3x the pot? thats just ridiculous. i dont care what your hand is. there is ONE situation where it is ok. in a situation where you are 100% sure you are ahead here. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU ARE AT. i call that raise with damn near every hand, ESPECIALLY if my opponent will shove 4300 into a 1k pot. ill call with 23. lol. sheesh.

ok, heres the thing. SOOO many hands have you in trouble here. you are NEVER that far ahead unless he has some idiotic hand like 79 no spades. do you realize, that 89 with 8 or 9 of spades, is 67.3/32.7 against you? thats how vulnerable your hand is. you cant say you are ahead now, because when the chips go in, HE is ahead. thats all there is to it.

you dont know you are ahead. you can justify that hes agressive blah blah he will bet with a hand blah blah, but you dont know that. unless hes a complete idiot, he will check a T to check shove you. he will check a flush. he will check a set. you are right to get the impression that he will check shove a 1500 bet or less, because its the correct play more often than not. i know we talked about this hand a lot last night, and even with the stacks like this, i still dont think you can possible consider a shove unless he turns his KJ with Ks over.

oh, as an aside, im not trying to be a dick i just woke up if i sound dicky im tryin to avoid it. grats on the victory, and yer right, its not a cut and dry play, because betting sucks and checking sucks. my argument is that shoving cant possibly be correct, he wont call with a worse hand, period, and i dont think he folds enough to make it worth putting 4.3x the pot in there. thats all i got. debate with me real quick ima get some food. holla
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2005, 05:22 PM
ilya ilya is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Party Poker
Posts: 460
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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But if I bet 1500 or less, I know he'll push with any 2. What should I do???

Results to come later

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Umm. If you *know* he'll do this, isn't it obvious u should bet 1500 & call his push?
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2005, 05:25 PM
citanul citanul is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Default Re: $1,000 1 table freezeout. What do you do here???

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But if I bet 1500 or less, I know he'll push with any 2. What should I do???

Results to come later

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Umm. If you *know* he'll do this, isn't it obvious u should bet 1500 & call his push?

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dude, you are like, SO late with this reply.

c
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