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#1
11-10-2005, 01:28 AM
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Black\'s 2 donkey plays
Now I was generally impressed with Andrew Black's play (from what i saw on TV and read on Cardplayer), but I just can't even wrap my head around what the F he was thinking:
a) going 4 bets all-in with Phil Ivey w/ A2s, and b) calling a re-raise all-in in m/w pot with KJo Sure, it looks great to bluff Phil Ivey out of a pot on TV (although Phil actually had the worse hand, but there's no way Black knew that), but jeeeezus that was an awful awful play -- the only thing he did right in that hand was show the A2s, which might have done something for his meta-game The KJ call was just chip-spewing...what on earth is an otherwise solid-seeming player doing making these plays -- just showing off?? If that's what qualifies as good late tournament play, then i am very very far off from ever going far in a large MTT. 
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#2
11-10-2005, 01:35 AM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
The KJ call was just chip-spewing...what on earth is an otherwise solid-seeming player doing making these plays -- just showing off?? If that's what qualifies as good late tournament play, then i am very very far off from ever going far in a large MTT. [/ QUOTE ] It wasn't a call with KJ, it was a raise to put Tex all-in. Huge difference. You think Black was showing off? He was the chip leader, and the play had reached a kind of bubble with a dozen or so left. Black understood very well that the remaining players were concerned about 1) making the guaranteed million from the top ten 2) cracking the final table at the main event. He could have figured Barch to be making a move to steal a nice multi-way pot in which only Matusow showed any strength. If Barch holds QQ-AA / AK, he calls, but with JJ there's still a chance to lay it down, and he lays down AQ and worse. Factoring folding equity, it's probably a marginal play, but it's clearly one that Black made by employing a read on Tex -- and one that Black made in the context of the bubble. Just didn't work out.
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#4
11-10-2005, 02:05 AM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
if barch folds JJ everyone would be saying it was a great play but because barch calls its a donkey play. [/ QUOTE ] Um, there was a UTG raise, 1 call, and then Black called. He does not make that play w/ QQ-AA. Easy call by Tex. (says someone who has never played for that much money 
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#5
11-12-2005, 06:35 AM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
smoothing calling a raiser and a caller... and then re-raising a lp re-raiser all-in...wow, that's almost as terrible as my writing ability...
black=donk
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#6
11-17-2005, 10:39 AM
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Interview with Black explaining
Here's an interview done with Black by an Irish poker info site after tenth place got knocked out. He explains his reasoning behind the KJ hand.
http://devore.typepad.com/wsop_lates...s/EXMIC008.MP3
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#7
11-12-2005, 10:12 PM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if barch folds JJ everyone would be saying it was a great play but because barch calls its a donkey play. [/ QUOTE ] Um, there was a UTG raise, 1 call, and then Black called. He does not make that play w/ QQ-AA. Easy call by Tex. (says someone who has never played for that much money [/ QUOTE ] That's only because you knew his hand. Barch knew that Matusow was raising light, and knew neither of the first 2 callers had great hands or they would have raised. So a good player in that spot will sometimes raise with any two cards, because he knows that anyone who wants to play with him has to put their whole stack at risk (or half their stack in Blacks case). Black knew this and therefore put Barch on wider range of hands, and was re-stealing. Fairly standard play. Whether it was a good play or not depends on how Barch was playing, their images of each other, etc. But it is well within the possibility of being a good play. -g
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#8
11-13-2005, 01:30 AM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] if barch folds JJ everyone would be saying it was a great play but because barch calls its a donkey play. [/ QUOTE ] Um, there was a UTG raise, 1 call, and then Black called. He does not make that play w/ QQ-AA. Easy call by Tex. (says someone who has never played for that much money [/ QUOTE ] That's only because you knew his hand. Barch knew that Matusow was raising light, and knew neither of the first 2 callers had great hands or they would have raised. So a good player in that spot will sometimes raise with any two cards, because he knows that anyone who wants to play with him has to put their whole stack at risk (or half their stack in Blacks case). Black knew this and therefore put Barch on wider range of hands, and was re-stealing. Fairly standard play. Whether it was a good play or not depends on how Barch was playing, their images of each other, etc. But it is well within the possibility of being a good play. -g [/ QUOTE ] Why would Barch make a squeeze play with 4 other players in the hand? If he had a medium pair Barch would have just called for set value. But thinking he is on a steal here is very wishful thinking.
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#9
11-13-2005, 01:52 AM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
So a good player in that spot will sometimes raise with any two cards, because he knows that anyone who wants to play with him has to put their whole stack at risk (or half their stack in Blacks case). [/ QUOTE ] RIIIIIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTTTTTT. Name ONCE you have ever seen this play b4. just ONCE.
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#10
11-13-2005, 04:17 PM
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Re: Black\'s 2 donkey plays
[ QUOTE ]
So a good player in that spot will sometimes raise with any two cards, because he knows that anyone who wants to play with him has to put their whole stack at risk (or half their stack in Blacks case). Black knew this and therefore put Barch on wider range of hands, and was re-stealing. Fairly standard play. [/ QUOTE ] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA No.
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Hybrid Mode
