|
|
#11
09-13-2005, 03:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
I don't think you worry about scaring off players who are concerned about colluders. You worry about scaring off clueless suckers. Clueless suckers most likely don't see anything wrong with friends checking it down, etc.
|
|
#12
09-13-2005, 03:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I rarely come down on the side of the nits, but this time I am. In a heads up pot I would see nothing wrong with discussing the hand, but since it it multiway I think it is inappropiate. [/ QUOTE ] Why is it inappropiate? I never understood that sentiment, if I want to say I can beat a queen or not, its up to the table to decide if I am lying/bluffing, whats the different if I say it, or bet it? None. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is it give the appearance of collusion. The hotel guest that you want to stay in the game may see it as you telling your friend to save money becasue you have her beat. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, I guess I really hadnt thought of that aspect, I think normally the players get the point that Im having fun/talking trash, than colluding. Unless the guy is the guy at the table that no one likes, then Ill say it in a different tone to him. Im rambling now....
|
|
#13
09-13-2005, 04:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I rarely come down on the side of the nits, but this time I am. In a heads up pot I would see nothing wrong with discussing the hand, but since it it multiway I think it is inappropiate. [/ QUOTE ] Why is it inappropiate? I never understood that sentiment, if I want to say I can beat a queen or not, its up to the table to decide if I am lying/bluffing, whats the different if I say it, or bet it? None. [/ QUOTE ] The difference is it give the appearance of collusion. The hotel guest that you want to stay in the game may see it as you telling your friend to save money becasue you have her beat. [/ QUOTE ] I agree only if he's saying it to the person with relative discretion. Like whispering. Which I have actually seen one time. Ended up breaking the game. If it's said loud enough that everyone can hear it that's involved in the pot, and it doesn't have the appearance of being said below board, they are all subject to the same info and can draw their own conclusions. I agree with the OP there. I would think HU would indicate collusion more since then you could be saving the opponent money. Kind of like softplaying HU after going into the hand multiway. But that's a different matter as that's alot more common and accepted. Especially among regulars in a room. Those same regular 'tards that later on bemoan how much they are down when if they ever played their 'buds' straight up they'd be up. Morons. b
|
|
#14
09-13-2005, 04:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
From Robert's Rules of Poker (Ciaffone):
[ QUOTE ] POKER ETIQUETTE The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator: Deliberately acting out of turn. Deliberately splashing chips into the pot. Agreeing to check a hand out when a third player is all-in. Reading a hand for another player at the showdown before it has been placed faceup on the table. Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown. Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete. Revealing the contents of a folded hand before the betting is complete. Do not divulge the contents of a hand during a deal even to someone not in the pot, so you do not leave any possibility of the information being transmitted to an active player. Needlessly stalling the action of a game. Deliberately discarding hands away from the muck. Cards should be released in a low line of flight, at a moderate rate of speed (not at the dealer's hands or chip-rack). Stacking chips in a manner that interferes with dealing or viewing cards. Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot. Using a cell phone at the table. [/ QUOTE ] Two sections might apply: 1. "Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete." My understanding is that this is usually interpreted to mean that you cannot show your hand or truthfully state what it is. If you lie about your cards, you are not violating this rule. Saying you can beat a queen, if you can, could be interpreted as a nit violation. 2. "Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot." The key word here is "unfairly". Again, an issue of interpretation. Poker is a game of trying to influence the course of play. IMHO, saying anything is fair game and you believe anything said at the table at your own risk. Personally, I figure that anything said at a card table is better than 50-50 to be BS. But unless I know better, I also figure that the odds are that there is at least one nit at the table, so it's best to not talk about hands.
|
|
#15
09-13-2005, 04:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
If it's said loud enough that everyone can hear it that's involved in the pot, and it doesn't have the appearance of being said below board, they are all subject to the same info and can draw their own conclusions. I agree with the OP there. [/ QUOTE ] You are assuming the players understand the game. I have had players come to me and want me to do somethign becasue someone said to another player "you straddle then I will straddle." The players that might feel something is wrong are the exact palyers you want in the game.
|
|
#16
09-13-2005, 05:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, in a very big multiway pot (Queen high board), guy in the 8 seat says (I'm in the 2 seat)...... "You bet with a lot of confidence". I say, "Because I can beat a queen". [/ QUOTE ] How is saying you can beat a queen any worse than telling the table that someone bet with a lot of confidence? I'm with you on this...
|
|
#17
09-13-2005, 05:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If it's said loud enough that everyone can hear it that's involved in the pot, and it doesn't have the appearance of being said below board, they are all subject to the same info and can draw their own conclusions. I agree with the OP there. [/ QUOTE ] You are assuming the players understand the game. I have had players come to me and want me to do somethign becasue someone said to another player "you straddle then I will straddle." The players that might feel something is wrong are the exact palyers you want in the game. [/ QUOTE ] You want all 3 in the game, not just the complainer. Some dealers also think of this as collusion. One dealer thought this way during a 2+2 game last december. Took me awhile to set it straight with the dealer what was going on. But many players(especially new) think of it as a game of bluffing and BS'ing ala WPT and stupid shows like 'tilt'. Again, my first concern would be if the information was available to the whole table when stated. However, I can see your point that it can be a fine line depending on how others may view it. The time I was at the table, a gal whispered in Korean to a guy next to her (also korean) for the guy to fold. The dealer who spoke Korean, stopped action and reprimanded the player. Floor was called, slight chaos ensued and the table ended up breaking. I think that's a much different situation than what the OP did. Unless he (unintentionally) said it with a low tone. But I still see getting it HU later in the hand and checking it down as looking worse. Especially when someone is checking down the nuts. Yet this same person is betting HU into other players. Many of the players that I've found that don't like the straddles are the weak-tight rocks who's sphincter tightens up at the slightest sign of aggression because it pushes them out of their comfort zone. There are even players who think there should be no discussion about the hand after the hand is done. (note: not table coaching or berating, just discussing) I overheard a guy adamantly try to quiet a couple guys down at a table. They were just talking casually giving unknowingly giving 'free' info on how they play. One of the damndest things I'd heard in awhile. I will agree, when in doubt, protect the game. b
|
|
#18
09-13-2005, 08:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On the turn, in a very big multiway pot (Queen high board), guy in the 8 seat says (I'm in the 2 seat)...... "You bet with a lot of confidence". I say, "Because I can beat a queen". [/ QUOTE ] How is saying you can beat a queen any worse than telling the table that someone bet with a lot of confidence? I'm with you on this... [/ QUOTE ] If you want to be really nity, "I can beat a queen" could mean that you can just beat queen-high since a pair of queen was never specified.
|
|
#19
09-13-2005, 08:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On the turn, in a very big multiway pot (Queen high board), guy in the 8 seat says (I'm in the 2 seat)...... "You bet with a lot of confidence". I say, "Because I can beat a queen". [/ QUOTE ] How is saying you can beat a queen any worse than telling the table that someone bet with a lot of confidence? I'm with you on this... [/ QUOTE ] If you want to be really nity, "I can beat a queen" could mean that you can just beat queen-high since a pair of queen was never specified. [/ QUOTE ] You could also say "Big weasel's poppin a big one on Tuesday in the bathtub." Either way, it can be interpreted as collusion.
|
|
#20
09-13-2005, 11:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: $20-40 Floor Ruling, Ethics?
Overall, I am inclined to do nothing about these situations, as they are so commonplace it's almost pointless to bother. However, I'd ultimately have to very slightly side on the philosophy of Randy R on this one, it's basically more of a bad thing that could hurt the game and drive out the fishies. Still tho, unless some local nits get their panties in a bunch, I'm not going to go out of my way to intervene when this type of thing happens.
al
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
