Born in the USA

[Howard Burroughs]

This is a recent hand from a Mirage $10-$20 game.


I open raise from the cutoff with black nines.
We lose the button & sb. BB 3-bets. I call.


btw, BB I recognize as an off duty dealer from another poker room. I have never played with him before. He just sat down in the game.


Flop......

K Q 9 (two hearts)

Check, bet, check-raise, call.

K Q 9, 4 (offsuit)

Check, bet, check-raise, call.


River brings the 8 of hearts.

Check, bet, check-raise, call (no, this is not Groundhog Day :-)


BB turns over two black aces & my hand is good.


********************************


I thought I made a few mistakes in this hand and brought it up at the discussion group I participate in. I got some great feedback from Clark & Barry T. (as well as a few others).

A friend asked me if I would post the hand here as well.


A comment & a question:


The comment.......

Check-raising on the Flop, turn & river all in the same hand, is sometimes referred to as the "Hat Trick". I've accomplished the hat trick a time or two over the years myself. I've also been the victim of a hat trick before. But this is the first time I can remember, seeing someone accomplish the hat trick without having the winning hand!


*********************************

The question.......

Given the hand as described, what is the best way to play my pocket nines on each street?


Thanks in advance for any comments &/or input. Special thanks to Clark for coming by yesterday and giving his take on this and other topics.


Best of Luck

Howard

[CatsPajamas]

Hi Howard,
Some might advocate a 4 bet preflop. After all, you are a favorite vs 2 overcards. However, just calling is fine, and you disguise the fact you have a made hand.


From the action, it should be assumed at the time that you are ahead on the flop, I say this because if he had flopped a set, i can't see him check raising it. A bet and calling your raise (with the intent of check raising turn) is more likely. That being said, you just calling is fine (IF you intend on raising the turn). Of course then the turn comes and he doesn't cooperate and bet out. So you betting is fine, but he check raises you. Now at this point, you could very well be behind. I like your CALL here (I know the results dictate otherwise, but I couldn't personally raise here. His play is just too strong for a hand that you don't beat. The only reasonable hands I could put him on are AK or KQ that you beat.)

So the river comes a flush card, and he checks. Now this is strange. Would the average player check a set here on the river? Does he fear you have the flush just because the draw was there? Again, I like your bet on the river.

The pot is just too massive to fold at this point to his raise, so your call was good too.



You don't talk much about your thought process throughout the hand, but if you were intending on raising him on the turn (after just calling his flop check raise), then I think your play was very good.


Cats

[Howard Burroughs]

Thanks for the input Cats,

Yes, I was planning on raising the turn when/if he comes out betting the turn. His turn check-raise took me a little off-guard.

Thanks

Howard

[astroglide]

you have to reraise one of these streets, at least the flop. were you that worried about a set?

[Tommy Angelo]

Hi Howard,

You entered a situation-space I don't know, so I can only talk about the one I do.

I would have made it three bets on the flop with many hands -- AK, JJ, 10-10, AQ, KQ, K-9, Q-9, maybe even 2-2 if I think the guy might have popped a checkraise out there with a frustrated underpair -- and that's why I don't think I would be giving away info by making it three bets with your set, which is what I would do, every time.

If he makes it four bets on the flop, I would make it five. I would stop after one or two more raises against most opponents, and then just call down.

If he just calls my reraise on the flop and he checks the turn, I would bet. If he bets the turn, I would raise. If he makes it three bets, I would call down. If he checkraises the turn , then, for the first time in the hand so far, I would think. The decision to reraise the turn or call down would depend on the moment.

Tommy

[Lee Jones]

Hmmm. I can't see going to war with your set. After all, the guy three-bet you from out of position. My (very limited) experience in the Mirage 10-20 is that those guys are not there to gamble it up. And if somebody who isn't there to gamble it up three-bets from the BB, there's not a lot of hands I put him on. AA, KK, QQ, AK.

So, this seems to be "way ahead or way behind", right? It's weird to say that about a set, but as you say, when you get check-raised twice in a row, you start to wonder. Sure, he can have AA or AK. Or KK or QQ. I'm going to leave JT out of the mix for the moment, but it's a terrifying possibility because he has the stone cold nuts.

Anyway, let's see... e^pi / (X ^ (1/3))... 6 AA, 12 AK, 3 KK, 3 QQ. So you should be way in front at least 75% of the time (we'll let the JT's cancel the "everything else's"). So maybe I'm wrong, maybe you should re-raise him. On the other hand, it seems that your downside potential is greater than your upside. If you're truly in front, he'll just call (at best) a three-bet. But he'll probably four-bet you with KK or QQ, and you have to call.

Furthermore, re-raising the river is out of the question - I'm sure you were expecting to see hearts when he check-raised the river. And your "call the flop raise the turn" play looks great (which he bollocksed up by check-raising you). Eh, so maybe you three-bet the turn - but are you doing so with the intent to bet the river if he calls your three-bet? Fold if he four-bets? Yikes. Folding this hand seems out of the question, so you have to ask yourself how many bets you really wanna put in. You flopped bottom set with a straight possible - this is not the hill I want to die on.

You got 6.5 BB's out of him - that's not too bad.

Regards, Lee

P.S. You didn't say what the suit texture of the flop was, but if he could have something like Ah-Kh and have flopped top-top with the flush draw, well, I'd check-raise that three times :-).

[Tyler Durden]

When I read that you called his checkraise on the flop I thought "oh that's good, setting up the raise on the turn with your monster set."

Then it didn't happen.

Instead I read that you called his turn checkraise and I thought "Okay, he's just waiting till the river. I like that too."

Then it didn't happen.

This hand bums me out. It's like a bad movie and you think the end will be good because the hand has to have ONE redeeming quality right? Wrong.

I like your flop play with the intention of 3-betting after he checkraises you.

[Ed Miller]

My only suggestion is that you toss in a reraise at some point... probably the turn. There's no reason to think he has your set beaten yet...

[Diplomat]

Hi Howard,

When head's up, I tend to go a little nuts. If I flop a set head's up, I re-raise until my shirt is in the middle. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Seriously though, I think three-betting the flop is a good idea. If he four-bets, I would go ahead and make it five bets. I'd start worrying when he makes it six, and probably call him down. If the betting does not get to 6 or more bets on the flop, I would three-bet the turn most of the time.

Maybe it's just me, but I almost never worry about a bigger set when I'm head's up...Dealers, in my experiences, tend to be a little more agressive than usual, so I'd factor that in as well.

I cannot make sense of his betting. There are better ways to get more bets into the pot if he thinks his hand is good. I think he was just trying to showboat a bit.

-Diplomat

[Ulysses]

I concur w/ the masses. I'll 3-bet him on the flop and if he 4-bets, sometimes I'll 5-bet, other times I'll wait for the turn.

Now, if he 4-bets the flop and then 3-bets me on the turn, I'll call him down and expect to see QQ or KK.

Even w/ two hearts out there, I don't think someone w/ QQ or KK will usually checkraise that flop. It seems more like AK or AA to me.