Big Blind Drive-by

[Howard Burroughs]

This is a hand I played in a weekend late night Vegas poker game. This was an 11 handed game with a slew of big time calling stations and 1 maniac. The maniac is always raising pre-flop with any two cards but usually settles down after the flop.


I am in the big blind. UTG (the only decent player at the table) folds. The next player open raises. This player just sat down & this is his first hand dealt. The maniac is next to act & 3-bets.
The entire field cold calls!


You look down & see T-8, suited (diamonds).
What's your play?


I called. New guy 4-bets & M 5-bets. We lose no one and it's two bets back to me. There are 48 bets in the pot. I call.

Ten players. Five bets each. 50 bets in the pot.


J, 6, 4, rainbow(1 diamond)


Small Blind checks. What's your play?


I check, New guy bets, entire field calls.

There are now 59 small bets in the pot.

What's your play?


I call


J, 6, 4, T (putting up two spades)
Small blind checks.
WYP?

I check, NG bets, entire field calls. I call.

River brings the 8 of spades.

J, 6, 4, T, 8 (3 spades on board)
Small blind throws his hand in the muck, WYP?


I check, NG bets. Everyone except one late position player folds.
I call. NG shows pocket aces. Late player shows T-4 off.

Ol' King Kong got nothin' on me :-)

***********************

A friend asked me to post this hand.
I'm not particularly proud of the way I played this hand. But of note.......

For well over an hour after this hand, all the whole table seemed to want to talk about was my play on the flop in this hand. They all felt my hand should of went into the muck on the flop. That only an idiot would call with "No hand AND no draw". Well with 59 bets in the pot, not mucking on the flop is the one play I made in the hand that I felt I definitely got right.


I was surprised to find so many at my poker discussion group that felt a fold on the flop with 59 small bets in the pot (& you are closing the betting) was the play they would make.


And no one from my D group said they would ever be there for the flop from the BB with T-8 suited. They said it was atrocious to pay that kind of money to see a flop with those cards. Even with ten way action with eight BAD players (plus one mystery man).

I know most (all?) of my play in this hand was dicey at best, atrocious at worst.

What say you?

How would you play it & where did I go wrong?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Best of Luck

Howard

[rayrns]

I would have called pre-flop. Then folded when NG bet on the flop. With the J on the flop you can only draw: river-river str8 or flush or if you pair it is only second pair. So as you won and I would have lost, in this hand you were correct and I would have been wrong.

[davidross]

I would have played it exactly as you did. Pre-flop I think both calls are OK especially if you think you are better post-flop than the others. On the flop 59-1 is enough for me to call 1 more bet. Turn and river bets are automatic. The guy with T4 must be kicking himself, he could have dropped you on the turn I think.

You have now bankrolled your next 84 “loose calls” on the flop. Well done.

[Tommy Angelo]

Howard,

Ni han!!

preflop: I would have folded, even with 10-9. :-)

flop: I think it's a no brainer to call one bet with 59 already in. Aren't you something like 20-1 against to make a straight or a flush or two pair? Maybe 15-1, I don't know. It's chunks lower than 60-1, plenty enough to cover the hit-and-lose fiascos. Plus, if you wiff altogether on the turn, now you've got a super easy fold on the turn. Sick as this sounds, I think your call on the flop was your best play of the hand.

turn: gotta call now

river: I would have either bet out, or, if I checked and saw the action progress so perfectly, I would definitely have checkraised the river. Doesn't look like the caller made a hand that beats mine, and the bettor, well, I doubt his hand got any better since the flop, unless maybe just maybe he had J-10. If I checked the river, it would not be with the specific intent of checkraising, but I'd be ready to just in case, and as it actually went down was one of those cases.

Tommy

[Clarkmeister]

Super easy preflop fold IMO. The rest of the streets were fine.

[Ed Miller]

I was gonna try to make a joke out of it, but I'm too tired, so I'll just say it... folding the flop would be a big mistake. You have a backdoor flush draw and the big draw to runner-runner two pair or trips. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

As for preflop... it is atrocious to pay 4 SB to see the flop with that hand... doesn't matter how many are in. If you knew that the pot wouldn't be 4 and 5-bet behind you... then I think the call is very marginal... but not atrocious.

[Matt D]

Pre-Flop Definately +EV, even if capped. Run it in some simulations if you don't believe me.

Flop EASY call. As Tommy said, folding would be very bad.

Turn I would have bet. Although its unlikely your hand is best or that it will be checked around, there's 30BB in the pot and many hands drawing live on you will fold. If you have the best hand and no one bets, thats a disaster. There's 30 BB in the pot. Time to risk an extra bet to protect it if its yours.

River I would have bet, but its probably close and you were there, I wasn't. I would have definately raised after that action though.

NI HAN

One question for all those at the table who criticized your flop play: What did they call the flop with that wasn't good enough to call the river when no one had shown post-flop strength?

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Howard..just remember one thing, kiddo....Barry is always right. [img]/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] LGGP, Babe [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

[PokerPrince]

Easy preflop muck. I know it may look tempting with all those players in but you are still holding garbage out of position and you know it will more than likely be capped. Nice pot though. I'm sure you put a few on tilt.

PokerPrince