tricky TPNK hand 15/30

schwza · #1 12-30-2005, 02:37 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG (t980)
UTG+1 (t936)
UTG+2 (t1119)
MP1 (t1260)
MP2 (t680)
MP3 (t920)
CO (t520)
Button (t1380)
Hero (t1250)
BB (t1915)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls t20, 2 folds, CO calls t20, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t80) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t60, BB calls t60, MP1 calls t60, CO raises to t200, Hero calls t140, BB calls t140, MP1 folds.

River: (t740) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets t300 (All-In), hero?

CO is a bit of a maniac, something like 18/48 in 25 hands preflop and overvaluing hands postflop and generally splashing around too much. BB hasn't been out of line. he insta-called the raise on the turn.

comments on all streets appreciated.

#2 12-30-2005, 02:56 PM

I lead out the flop and fold to any aggression. Turn, i play similarly based on the action to this point (CO=T9? or 99? don't think he has 99 or he would have bet flop in position, maybe TT slow play?). Turn, you would have to call reraise of 140 into a pot of 460 and 2 players to act behind you. Your getting a little better than 3:1 (not the odds you need for the flush draw on the river)and at this point you dont really know, but your A may be good (not likely, but thats why i like a flop bet). I call the turn raise. Rivers tough. you have to call 300 into a pot of 680. roughly 2.3:1 with nothing but TPwK. I hate the BB tag along, but CO maybe desperate enough to be playing a 9x with his short stack, so I make this call and pray BB doesn't push over the top. The flop play sure has made this tough on every street down the line.

#3 12-30-2005, 02:57 PM

WOw first I misread your hand and thought you had a5c. SO I'm like what is this guy thinking about. Like the way you playing it. I would lead with a similar amount on the turn. The BB's instacall kinda makes me think he hit his 9. That seems to be my experience. As far as making the call.. its a tough one in that it's so early and you'd hate to be wrong here and have him turn up 2 pair. I probably dump this. I don't think he has a 10 since he probably bets this on the flop. Maybe hes raising his kj on the turn? I would play a set this way..have you guys lead on the turn and raise it due to the draws out there now. I lay down and play on.. its so early. maybe you get lucky and the BB has a monster

gumpzilla · #4 12-30-2005, 02:58 PM

I'd probably lay down here. I think the hands I expect to see most often in this situation are T9, A5, A9 type hands, even if your guy has been kind of maniacal. I think even maniacs frequently realize that betting 300 into a pot of 740 after your turn raise gets overcalled isn't going to generate two folds all that often. (EDIT: And I think two pair or one of the better aces is more likely than one of the three weaker aces, which are the range of holdings I suspect he's going to be excited about from your description.) Add in BB likely having some kind of reasonable holding and it gets less attractive still. If you really want to showdown with CO, then in the abstract I think I prefer a push to a call to try and isolate. Thinking about that further, I don't have a good sense for what BB could have and could do there, so that's probably a little extravagant. So fold.

Sam T. · #5 12-30-2005, 03:45 PM

I'll probably pot it on the flop. If I'm up against a real hand, I want to find out now when the pot is small.

Even without BB still in the hand, implied odds make this an easy call. The maniac bet the pot (was this an auto-bet?), so he may be on a hand, or he may just like betting the pot.

With the BB coming along, the river gets a bit tougher. It's hard to put him on anything other than a busted draw (maybe another weak ace?), so you may even lose him before show-down. Getting over 3:1 I'd call here, and would expect to win it about half the time.

adanthar · #6 12-30-2005, 03:59 PM

I would bet the flop. If I didn't bet, given this table, I would check the turn expecting to call a bet from the CO with the best hand.

Given the way the hand played out, I would grudgingly fold this river as I don't think you're good often enough (but it's decently close and I don't blame you for calling.)

Art Vandelay · #7 12-30-2005, 04:44 PM

I'd fold this river, but I can understand a call given that you're getting more than 3:1 on your money. I have a suspicion that maniac flopped two pair with A5 or AT or a set or something (maniacs often like to give the free card on the flop if they think they are ahead I find).

I do like Sam's line of betting the pot on the flop. Pot is still small, and with any reasonable resistance you find out that you are behind at this point. I like the turn call, you've got TPNK but a draw the nut flush, only paying another 140 into this pot is well worth the price at this juncuture IMO.

woodguy · #8 12-30-2005, 09:06 PM

I really don't like the turn lead.

You picked up a nice draw, and some players do not give as much credit to a runner/runner flush.

When I have a good draw and a meh made hand, I usually don't bet OOP in a multiway pot, fearing being raised off my nice draw.(easy to say with HH posted, but its true. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

Usually doesn't cost too much to call in this situation, and others may call if only one player bets the turn instead of a bet and a raise, helping increase the implied odds as well.

I know it gives more hands a chance to outdraw you if you're ahead, but the payoff is better when you make your draw, especially if a worse club draw is out by chance or 2nd pair makes 2 pair with your club on the river.etc.

Regards,
Woodguy