Chased, caught, cool?

[NYCNative]

Relatively new to Stud. I enjoy the game and I find the edges more pronounced than in Hold 'Em. Found myself at a higher limit than I usually played but wanted the challenge and the tables I wanted to play were empty.

This is a hand that I chased. I did catch, but I still don't know if it was the right thing to do and I want to not get into bad habits.

PokerStars Game #3340327234: 7 Card Stud Limit $3/$6 - 2005/12/15 - 12:33:42 ET

Seat 1: $93.75 in chips
Seat 2: $56.25 in chips
Seat 3: $27 in chips
Seat 4: Hero $65.25 in chips
Seat 5: $122.50 in chips
Seat 6: $78 in chips
Seat 7: $93.75 in chips

All seats post $0.25 ante

*** 3rd STREET *** (Pot = $1.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 2 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 3 Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 5 A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 7 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Seat 7 brings-in low $1</font>, <font color="red">Seat 1 raises to $3</font>, two folds, Hero calls $3, Seat 5 folds, Seat 6 calls $3, Seat 7 folds

*** 4th STREET *** (Pot = $11.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3, Seat 6 calls $3

*** 5th STREET *** (Pot = $20.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks. Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6, Seat 6 calls $6

*** 6th STREET *** (Pot = $38.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6c J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6, Seat 6 calls $6

*** RIVER *** (Pot = $56.75)

Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6h

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises $6 to $12</font>, Seat 6 folds, Seat 1 calls $6

*** SHOW DOWN *** (Pot = $80.75)

Hero shows 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] a flush, Ace high
Seat 1 shows Qd Kc K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] a straight, Nine to King

Hero collected $77.75 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $80.75 | Rake $3

The reasons that I chased:

1) Only one heart came out aside from mine.
2) With another player calling to the river, I was only putting in 1/3 of the pot.
3) The exposed cards of the two villains made full houses or two pair drawing to a boat unlikely.

The reason that I shouldn't have chased:

1) Didn't have any out other than the flush draw.
2) (Insert your response here)

[Roland]

So you don’t “chase” flush draws in hold’em? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You played it just fine. Folding this at any point would be a crime.

[PoorLawyer]

looks good. you have to have a very strong reason not to go to the river when you have an A high 4flush in that spot.

edit: i would consider betting out 4th to 1) give the illusion to the guy with the K that you caught Aces 2) to hope the guy in the middle calls and the initial raiser raises to get more money in the pot with you hand that has good equity.

with regard to your initial comment, I think the general school of thought is that you have a larger edge in hold em. Because of the shared cards, there are only a certain number of possible hands an opponent can make after the flop. On third or fourth in stud, you can still back into a lot of crazy stuff to outdraw your opponent.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the general school of thought is that you have a larger edge in hold em.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if Pokertracker nullifies that. I don't use any software for Stud because I don't know of any out there. I think PT gives borderline Holdem players an edge that borderline stud players don't get. Is there reliable software around for Stud?

[preiserone]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there reliable software around for Stud?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, we get nothing. And if there were somthing equivalent to PT for stud it would be very difficult to show much besides the players very basic playing style which you could easily just make note of after playing with the person for a while.

The complexity of starting hands is a big reason for this.

[joewatch]

Something like pokertracker would be very benefitial in this game to see if they way you are playing pairs, 3-flushes profitably or not. Just the ability to track your earnings and to replay hands graphically would make it valuable.

[preiserone]

I think starting hands rely to much on up cards to accurately condense it down to pairs and 3-flushes and such.

I agree tracking earnings and replaying hands would be valuable but with a little work you can do this without software, but cutting a few steps out of the process would definately be beneficial.

[Jeffage]

You must lead 4th street...in stud, the commanding board should lead...it may allow you to take the pot down later (if you pair your board for example) and gets money in the pot. I wouldn't check call here since the ace is also a scare card. Other than that, there isn't much to discuss.

Jeff

[joewatch]

I'm new to this game, too. Question about this hand - is it correct to call a raise on 3rd with a baby flush and no straightening possibilities? Seems -EV to me unless you are sure somebody will come along, or you are counting implied odds. How do you estimate implied odds in this situation?

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h - qd kc ks / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9h 5h 4h 161433 32.29 338564 67.71 3 0.00 0.323
Ks Kc Qd 338564 67.71 161433 32.29 3 0.00 0.677

Great card on 4th:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1406085
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h ah - qd kc ks 6c / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 9h 5h 4h 292520 58.50 207480 41.50 0 0.00 0.585
Ks Kc 6c Qd 207480 41.50 292520 58.50 0 0.00 0.415

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
Great card on 4th:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1406085
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h ah - qd kc ks 6c / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 9h 5h 4h 292520 58.50 207480 41.50 0 0.00 0.585
Ks Kc 6c Qd 207480 41.50 292520 58.50 0 0.00 0.415

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, you call to put yourself in this situation.