Struggling in a live $8-$16 game

brandon · #1 11-28-2005, 04:11 PM

I had a rough sesssion yesterday at a live $8-$16 game. It was and is a great game. 5 people to the flop, lots of cold calling raises, very passive, etc.

What is a good line to take in games such as that when you arent getting big draws on the flop?

AK-AJ unimproved on the flop in a raised pot,4 checks, and Im last to act? What does a betting the flop accomplish? Bottom pair is still getting the right odds to call. The guy with bottom pair wont check raise to thin the field. Check the flop?

MJL · #2 11-28-2005, 04:31 PM

A lot is also board dependent. If I have no real draws in addition to my top pair draws I usually just check and fold if unimproved and bet into. I will mix it up so they don't auto bet me if I check after I preflop raised. Because I do check and even fold unimproved I am able to bluff when a ragged board comes and I'm AK no pair. Even idiots notice when you raise then check the flop and or fold. They figure I must have a big pair so they might take a card off trying for a second pair, trips etc, but I usually get the pot HU and can frequently take it down unimproved on the turn or river by them folding. Of course you will improve on occasion which is sweeter. This only comes from the image that I will not bet if I don't have it. If the board is right I may (rarely) check if I hit too so they have no idea what a check or bet means from me. If you have a nut flush or straight draw in addition to your TP draw a bet is good but remember a lot of broadway cards that missed you are likely to hit them.

W. Deranged · #3 11-28-2005, 05:09 PM

Please post specific hands (or even a hypothetical hand you think representative of your difficulty). That is the only way you'll get focused advice.

DavidC · #4 11-29-2005, 08:17 AM

Just to answer one question, though... if there are 5 people in this, and I'm last to act UI on the flop with AJ, I'm checking.

You've got a weird situation... if people are going to fold hands like 22 it's good to bet, in order to increase your equity in the hand.

On the other hand, if you've got a guy in there with 66, and a guy with 22, and a guy with TT on a Q84 board, then betting and getting the 66 and 22 guy to fold doesn't really help you, as it only protects you from turn/rivers like A2 or K6, right? That's pretty rare, and there's some chance you'll be raised, etc.

On the other hand, it's possible that betting the flop will get you a free turn card. Even if you're not ahead, this may help you. However, if you read Weighing the Odds in Holdem (King Yao), I think that says that you have to succeed pretty often to make it a good play. Of course, I haven't read the book, so...

--Dave.

ReptileHouse · #5 11-29-2005, 11:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, it's possible that betting the flop will get you a free turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the live games I play, when it doesn't get me a free turn card, it meant exactly what it appears to mean. The turn card helped whoever bet into me on the turn and I can safely fold my UI overs.