Slow down or stay aggressive?

Aviston · #1 09-02-2005, 01:45 PM

Hand #1:

Reads: A beautiful 1/2 table late at night. 60% VP$IP. Haven't seen TPTK win at this table in a long time. Table is full of LPP's. Everyone has been playing Broadway+rag, suited, connectors, etc. Should I fear a two pair/set here or figure a draw and 3 bet?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls $1 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players, 1 all-in)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 folds, Hero ...?

Hand #2:

Reads: Typical tight 1/2 table. No one has gotten out of line in my first couple of orbits. What's my play?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero ...?

@bsolute_luck · #2 09-02-2005, 01:50 PM

hand #1: slow down. KQ is a very common cold calling hand IMO. if he is semi-bluffing or betting only a Q, take note.

hand#2:
i wouldn't have 3-bet that flop once CO folded. if he has a smaller pocket, i'll let him keep betting, if he's bluffing: let him keep bluffing, if he has the A: welp unless we hit our 2-outer (assuming he doesn't have A2), we're screwed [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

sadly, i'm gonna have to call this down and pray he is just being stupid [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

DrunkHamster · #3 09-02-2005, 01:58 PM

First one, I call down TBH. If the villain is truely LPP, it is unlikely that he is raising with something you beat. Nevertheless, you are good enough times to call I think. There is an argument for 3 betting, but if he caps and bets the river I for one would have a hard time calling. I may be wrong, but I call down.

Second one, I think he is telling us that he has an ace here. I don't know many TAGs that would three bet without one, which means that you are likely toast. However, getting 11-1, I would call this and fold a non J turn. If it hits, I think you are going to make up the 5BB deficit by the end, so I reckon your implieds are good enough to peel.

Aviston · #4 09-02-2005, 02:08 PM

At this table, KQ, K5, K6, Q5, and Q6 were all possible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Fantam · #5 09-02-2005, 02:44 PM

Hand 1:
I would not expect many typically passive players to raise the turn on a draw against a preflop raiser and flop bettor without the goods.

I imagine its more likely that button's hand improved on the turn to something like 2 pair. Its also possible that button could have been slowplaying a set from the flop.

I would call button's turn raise, because if you are behind, you could still improve to win by the river.

I would also check/call the river unimproved, because theres still a chance that you might have the best hand in a big pot.

Hand 2:
I would also have raised BB's flop bet, because he could have been betting with a 2 or pocket pair below your JJ.

However I would fold to BB's flop 3-bet. If BB is a tight player and plays reasonably, then he should consider your range of preflop raising hands from the button to include most pocket pairs and a number of Ax hands.

When you raise his flop bet, it should make the above range of hands even more likely for your holding.

However, by 3-betting the flop BB is showing that he is clearly not concerned about your having a high pocket pair. So I expect that BB most likely has Ax himself, and that you would be drawing thin if you stayed in the hand.

Roadstar · #6 09-02-2005, 04:55 PM

Like others have said.
Hand #1 - call down

Hand #2 - call the 3 bet and check fold the turn (unless you hit the miracle card). Lots of ppl play "any ace" at these limits.

Aviston · #7 09-03-2005, 10:26 AM

Thank you for the replies. I agree that calling down in hand one is correct and is exactly what I did. Here are the results:

Turn: (6.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

SB doesn't show.
Hero has Ah Kc (one pair, kings).
Button has Js Ts (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.75 BB.

Hand #2 I played like a fish. I think perhaps I call down a few too many hands. I am wondering if folding to the flop 3 bet is better than peeling one off and check/folding the turn UI. I shall have to ponder.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

BB has 2h 4c (two pair, aces and twos).
Hero has Jc Jh (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 10.25 BB.

Regardless of results, I played this hand badly although the showdown was quite suprising.

DrunkHamster · #8 09-03-2005, 11:04 AM

I think folding to this 3 bet on the flop is wrong, simply because of the sweet odds we're getting. Even though you won, I still think calling the flop and folding the turn UI is right, and will save you $$$ in the long run. How often do you really expect to win these against tags?

Aviston · #9 09-03-2005, 01:48 PM

Not enough to make calling down profitable which is why I agreed that I played this hand badly regardless of the outcome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

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