Living in the US, Learning the English Language

[BreakfastBurrito]

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I don't think that I underestimate this, I think my concern is that Spanish is "gaining ground" on the English language. It is scary how much is supported by Spanish IMO.

Given the length and predominance of the English language in the United States, what I am saying is LEARN the English language. I don't object to learning another language or using another language, but altering the construct of companies, business, subjective material to accomodate those that live here but refuse to learn the English language seems beyond a measure of ethnic or multi-lingual flexibility and is really forcing progressive change throughout the US and away from the traditional language used here (again IMHO).

As an analogy with poker in mind, imagine you go to a casino and get involved with a hand where controvery arises and the entire casino only speaks Spanish yet there is money involved. You speak English, the casino is in the United States...and you do what?

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I think you overestimate the number of people who come here and "refuse" to learn english. I would bet anything that the percentage of Spanish speaking immigrants who come here and learn English is far in excess than the percentage of Americans who move abroad and learn whatever language is spoken there. Why? Because most other countries offer the type of services you're so terrified of providing to Spanish speakers here.

Secondly, many Spanish speaking immigrants have minimal education and work VERY hard just to make ends meet. Learning English is a herculean task for such a person. Accomodating them is not a threat to the fabric of our society in my eyes.

[thatpfunk]

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The example given, an internal document was provided in English. It is a requirement to know English to work here. Read the document in English, why does it need to be printed in Spanish (and cost the company money)?

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It is the companies choice to do that. No one is forcing them. They feel it is in their best interests. What is wrong with that? There is no burden, simply choice.


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Because there is a large number of people who ONLY speak Spanish maybe?

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Exactly, and there is nothing wrong with it. They have every right to. If they believe that learning English would improve their lives somehow, they can make the choice to.

[jakethebake]

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Who is bending over backwards? Companies? They are making a choice to market or sell or hire Spanish speakers. There is no burden.

It is all about choice. The govt does not force corporations to market or sell towards Spanish speakers. Here's a hint: It is profitable.

Every way that you guys try to spin this is a poor attempt to shroud your bigotry and ignorance.

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I'm not being a bigot, not am I ignorant. And I really think you're being an idiot for throwing the word bigot around just because someone thinks it makes sense to learn the local language when you live someplace. I don't dislike immigrants. And I'm not pro closed-society.

I don't disagree that corporations make a decision to market or hire people freely. However, it's also true that our governments, federal & local, spend an incredible amount of money catering to people that refuse to learn to speak English. In some cases, it's dangerous not to be able to read signs (ie. traffic signs.). And it's an incredible inconvenience for a lot of people.

Again, I'm not being bigoted. I don't hate them. I actually respect them. Most immigrants work their asses off. And most Americans should learn a lesson from them in that respect. But it's just silly to remain ignorant of the language that is spoken where you live.

[thatpfunk]

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However, it's also true that our governments, federal & local, spend an incredible amount of money catering to people that refuse to learn to speak English.

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Well then this has nothing to do with Spanish, it is all languages. If you actively support and want to discuss a nationalized language then I would be happy to read your ideas in the politics forum.

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In some cases, it's dangerous not to be able to read signs (ie. traffic signs.)

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Knowing English is not necessary to drive in the US. There is very little English used, and when it is used, the shape and color of the sign indicate the same meaning.

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However, it's also true that our governments, federal & local, spend an incredible amount of money catering to people that refuse to learn to speak English.

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I live in San Diego, a city highly populated with Spanish speakers, attended a high school in which 55% of the students were immigrants, and have several friends that grew up speaking Spanish. With what I consider to be quite a bit experience I have NEVER met someone (kid, parent, grandparent) who simply refused to learn the language for the sake of stubborness or whatever. There are many, many different reasons why some people don't learn English, and unless it is a requirement, we don't have the right to make them.

Also, I think it would be interesting if you could find a study that details how much money the govt invests. As I've indicated, I don't particularly care since it is not requirement, but it would probably further any chances of intelligent discussion.

Apologies for the bigot remark, I believe you.

[jakethebake]

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Well then this has nothing to do with Spanish, it is all languages.

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Correct. I said "immigrants" not Mexicans or Latin Americans. I'm not ranting on anyone.

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Knowing English is not necessary to drive in the US. There is very little English used, and when it is used, the shape and color of the sign indicate the same meaning.

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In some cases this is true. Not in all cases. A big white sign or one with flashing lighted words (which I see quite a bit) in a language you don't understand doesn't help you much.

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I have NEVER met someone (kid, parent, grandparent) who simply refused to learn the language for the sake of stubborness or whatever.

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It's not stubbornness in most cases. I think it's mostly that they can't be bothered with it.

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unless it is a requirement, we don't have the right to make them.

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I'm not saying we should require it. But I do think we should stop enabling their ignorance of the English language.

[Blarg]

Well, first, you're an a_sshole, and second, I agree as far as government goes.

However, as far as commerce goes, dedicated Spanish radio and t.v. stations are money making enterprises, so what the heck is wrong with that. There are billions of dollars to be made from those, and it's all voluntary, so it would be dumb if somebody was NOT doing it.

What bugs me is seeing PBS programs all in Spanish, not even English subtitles. It's like you're having the bird flipped at you. This is an American station, supported partly by the government and partly by Americans who probably for the most part have no idea that some programs aren't even in English. This is at the same time there are three or four Spanish language stations. It really rubs me the wrong way.

As to learning to speak the language of a country you're in, to me it's a form of both practicality and respect. Frankly, lots of immigrants really do hate America, and are here just for the opportunities.

English isn't my first language either, but my family, and all their friends who came over, came over legally and learned English and learned it damn well, and were able to speak without notable accents within a few years. This is a form of self-respect and respect for your adopted country, which you should realize you're damn lucky to have gotten in. I guess it's hard to get that feeling when you just swim over. Of course, we were grateful to be here, like old-timey immigrants were, not angry and disgruntled, prejudiced and refusing to mix in with anyone else, or looking for a welfare dime, like so many new immigrants. We embraced America and Americans, and so became American. America is a huge, fantastic dream traditionally to people all over the world, and immigrants should treat it as such; but unfortunately our popular me-me-me-me modern outlook affects the immigrants as well as the natives, and basically nobody gives a shyt.

Sad, but I don't think that attitude and lack of effort should be rewarded, and not giving a shyt and flaunting it shouldn't be enabled by making it easy for you to get along in a country without knowing the language or following the law.