Incredibly bizarre player behavior, then wishy-washy floor decision

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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Try growing some BALLS already, you spineless schmuck. WHAM! right in the NUTS!

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Does this not present a paradox?

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Because the dealer should have immediately proclaimed that the button had not yet acted once the others started acting out of turn. It sounds like he just sat there like an idiot and passed the buck to the floor who wasn't there to see the action. And if the dealer wasn't aware of what the button did or did not do, then he wasn't doing his job.

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Yes Yes Yes. I don't understand why more dealers don't yell "hold on sir action is over here." It keeps simple problems or actions in a game from COMPOUNDING, which in turn makes a simple floor call a more complicated (and sometimes ridiculous) one.
This was on the river! The rake is done, you've dropped your stub, PAY ATTENTION and RUN this round, don't let the players run it.

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I gotta get a little nit-picky here. This does NOT meet the requirement of "signficant action." Significant action happens AFTER the fact, not BEFORE. However, you could possibly argue the point that the button did not PROTECT HIS ACTION good enough to make himself immune to possible counter-arguements for his "point." It's getting a "little iffy" here, I think we need the former lawyer, Psandman, to help us sort it out.

It might be a debate between protecting your action or not at this point, but significant action, I don't think so. I'll have to "talk to my lawyer" tho to make any official comment.


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I have already weighed in on this one, first in defense of the dealer (I agree that the dealer should have spoken up but he did not cause this problem- his speaking up could have helped the floorman make a better factual decision but that is irrelevant since the floor screwed the decision up on the rules not the facts)

As you say and I said before this is not significant action. In fact as far as I am concerned it is not even technically action. I understand action to be betting, calling, folding, raising.

I also don't consider EP's fold here to be action because there had been no bet and EP throws away his hand to no bet. That to me is not action (this case is a little different than the checkout situation which I argued was improper but I still don't think this the type of thing which should be considered action). Then EP turns his cards up. Thats not action.

The argument about the player not protectiung his action really amounts to whether there was signifcant action behind him before he spoke up. I contend there was no action behind him. In any event one player acting (If you want to call EPs folding to be action) is not significnat action. Now I have made an assumption here based on how I usually see problems like this occur. that assumption is that when EP folded, MP instantly flipped over his cards. What really can happen here in the seconds that it takes for one player to fold his cards and another to flip his. What action should Button take to protect his "right to act". He sort of called time, by announcing "Lets see here" he was announcing it was his turn to act and that he wanted some time to think. Unfortunaelty the person most at fault -- EP is the player not at all affected by this. Its like Mr. Magoo driving down the road leaving a wake of accidents behind him clueless that here is any problem.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

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Try growing some BALLS already, you spineless schmuck. WHAM! right in the NUTS!

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Does this not present a paradox?

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Details, details. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I knew you'd come through in lawyerly fashion my friend. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Good reply.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Yeah, one thing that dealers tend to FORGET is that they are there to RUN THE GAME, not just COLLECT TIPS. So RUN IT already!

al