Incredibly bizarre player behavior, then wishy-washy floor decision

[W. Deranged]

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Everyone involved sounds like a douche.

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Except PJ, who seems like a reasonable fellow...

[shant]

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Everyone involved sounds like a douche.

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Except PJ, who seems like a reasonable fellow...

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He wasn't included in everyone.

[sweetjazz]

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Button sounds like a douche.

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Or a turd sandwich.

[ThinkQuick]

I'm actually mostly dissapointed that the floor changed his mind twice and obviously didn't make it clear to MP what would happen if he did beat the button (or maybe he did which is why he laughed it off)

[CrazyEyez]

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Then he proposes to MP that they both chop the pot instead of showing down. MP doesn't like this idea, and says "If you bet, I'm gonna call you."

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As soon as I read this part, I thought for sure the button was an angle-shooting [censored] and was going to agree and then flip up the winner. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Is there something missing here? Did the button do anything to indicate a check other than say "let's see here" and look at his cards? That doesn't sound/look like a check to me...

[B Dids]

Seems pretty clear the dealer screwed up.

Also seems like the button could have been more clear.

Also seems like the floor could have handled this better.

And it seems like the button was getting called anyway and all that happened was wasted time.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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And it seems like the button was getting called anyway and all that happened was wasted time.

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This is the part that is not clear. We haven't been told the cards, but I assume that MP had a marginal hand and a tough decision on whether to call. He did not say that he was going to call until after button offered to chop the pot rather than go to showdown --- a little hint that button was beat.

[private joker]

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And it seems like the button was getting called anyway and all that happened was wasted time.

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This is the part that is not clear. We haven't been told the cards, but I assume that MP had a marginal hand and a tough decision on whether to call. He did not say that he was going to call until after button offered to chop the pot rather than go to showdown --- a little hint that button was beat.

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Yeah, it was a pretty tough decision for MP. The board was kind of scary, like AKT74 or something, maybe a possible flush but I don't think so. MP showed A2s and that's when Button bet.

1) I do believe Button did not do anything to indicate check; he should have called "time," but I'd err on the side of him not checking.

2) I do believe Button was angle-shooting. When he saw the A2s, he used his read on MP as being able to make tough laydowns that he thought he could push him off a weak top pair.

After the floor made his ruling, part of the button's tilting rant was telling MP "You never make that call. Never call with that hand. I play with you, and you never call with that hand."

[Al_Capone_Junior]

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The first guy to act (EP) checks. The second guy to act (MP) checks. The button then notices the action is on him and slowly leans his chair forward on all fours and hunches over the table, muttering, "let's see here" and takes the chip off his cards so he can look at them, still covering them with his hand.


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So far, so good. Slightly irritating, yes, but hasn't really violated any rules or ettiquette.

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EP then mucks, MP turns his cards face up and asks button, "Show! show!"

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Holy cow batman, WTF? Why not just kick YOURSELF in the nuts ahead of time, in case you decide to do anything STUPID, like this? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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button thinks for at least 5 more seconds, then puts 8 yellow chips on the line.


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while even slightly more irritating, he's within his normal rights to do so at this point. The other moron(s) are the ones who jumped the gun.

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EP and MP furiously protest that he checked and can't bet now that MP's cards have been shown.

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Because they are dumbassess.

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Button protests that he never checked.

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And he did NOT.

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The dealer is stymied and says nothing

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Try growing some BALLS already, you spineless schmuck. WHAM! right in the NUTS!

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button calls the floor over.


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An obviously correct move.

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He eventually says there was too much action before button bet, meaning the EP's muck and MP's showdown, so the bet will not stand and button needs to just show his cards.


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I gotta get a little nit-picky here. This does NOT meet the requirement of "signficant action." Significant action happens AFTER the fact, not BEFORE. However, you could possibly argue the point that the button did not PROTECT HIS ACTION good enough to make himself immune to possible counter-arguements for his "point." [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It's getting a "little iffy" here, I think we need the former lawyer, Psandman, to help us sort it out. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

It might be a debate between protecting your action or not at this point, but significant action, I don't think so. I'll have to "talk to my lawyer" tho to make any official comment. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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MP and button are arguing loudly about it, with button absolutely shrieking that he should be able to bet at this pot. The floor calms everyone down just long enough to find out what happened. He eventually says there was too much action before button bet, meaning the EP's muck and MP's showdown, so the bet will not stand and button needs to just show his cards.


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I don't think this is SO unreasonable of the floor at this point. Give me a break already, floors get so many FRIGGED UP SITUATIONS to deal with, they sometimes just gotta make a friggin' decision and GO WITH IT.

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Button gets really angry and this and says he won't accept it. He wants to see a supervisor and wants to see the videotape. Then he proposes to MP that they both chop the pot instead of showing down. MP doesn't like this idea, and says "If you bet, I'm gonna call you." So the floorman listens to this new deal, and says, "OK, if you wanna bet, go ahead. I will let him call you, and then we'll show cards."


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IS the floor being wishy-washy here? Maybe, perhaps even YES. IS the floor being reasonable here? Why the FRIG not? If there is a solution that pleases everyone, and it does not violate the spirit of fairness or the integrity of the game, then why should any decent floorperson NOT try to "make everyone happy?" I mean obviously if it's just clearly DEAD WRONG, and OBVIOUSLY HARMFUL to the game, then no dice, of course. But here, this floor guy may have found a solution that is fair enough, AND makes everyone happy. So why not? Can't criticize him too harshly here.

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Button hates this plan even more.

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SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO kicked in the nuts. SO. In the nuts. Square. In the nuts.

Friggin' did I already mention kicking this guy in the nuts? I mean I was mostly on his side, up till now. But at this point, I gotta hope I didn't forget to wear my steel-toed boots.

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He protests one more time, and the floorman tells him he can't have it both ways. He now simply demands that button show his cards.

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Quite reasonable at this point. Although kicking him in the nuts might have been a better choice of actions. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]


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Now MP starts yelling that he wants $40 from button, but the floorman laughs it off and leaves. MP rakes the pot.

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At this point I even kick the spectators in the nuts.

Friggin' jerkoffs, their nuts would be so goddamn sore that my foot would be bruised from kicking so many nuts in such a short time.

This kind of crap is why floormen eventually get really impatient and stop trying to have a sense of humor, sense of fairness, and just come out swinging and kicking everyone in the nuts every time they get called over for yet another idiotic decision between two (or more) idiotic players and let's not forget the idiot dealer who could have just been paying attention in the first friggin' place and doing their friggin' job of properly kicking these moron players in the nuts at the first sign of idiocy or stupidity thus saving the $6 shoe-shine the poor floorman just paid to have his well-worn steel-toed's shined that morning on their way to work but have to yet again get scuffed up from kicking so many well-deserving morons in the nuts!!!!!!!!!*

al

*run-on sentence enough for ya? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]