Teaching friend hold'em, JJ verse a KKT board.

dacubbie · #1 10-20-2005, 12:31 AM

So I'm trying to teach my friend hold'em. Proving to be a little more frustrating than I anticipated. He sent me this hand, which I initially replied, "why the f didn't you 3 bet preflop?" but assuming you just call preflop, what do you do from there on out?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jd, Jc.
3 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Kh, Kc, Td (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, MP2 3-bets, MP3 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

TheHammer24 · #2 10-20-2005, 12:35 AM

3-bet pf..but I think it is fine as played

#3 10-20-2005, 12:39 AM

For metagame reasons hero should call the 3-bet and fold the turn UI. He's not that far from set odds and will probably be able to make up the 3 BB required to make this a breakeven.

Pog0 · #4 10-20-2005, 01:52 AM

Also, there's a good chance that a combination of a queen and a nine would make you good (vs his very likely AK). Funny though, if you hit one, you still won't have odds to chase on the turn, so those outs are discounted.

But yeah, we can safely assume our opponent does not hold a jack, so you've got a 1 in 22.5 chance to hit on the turn. getting 15:1 odds now, assuming a jack makes you good, you should get 2BB on the turn and 1 on the river, giving you a very debatable 21:1 to call. Add the chance that hitting our jack doesn't win (albeit, very small, only vs KK and getting rivered), it's clearly a losing proposition. I don't see metagame being too important here because we didn't raise preflop and thus it doesn't look like we're being pushed off a good hand but rather just donking around.

#5 10-20-2005, 02:02 AM

Perhaps I need to fold more on the flop [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] . Your math makes sense here. Of course, if we'd raised preflop there'd be more money in the pot and we'd have the odds to peel the turn, but that's a different issue.

@bsolute_luck · #6 10-20-2005, 08:26 AM

i don't get it. so we think MP2 has AA/QQ/TT or the King here? reads would be nice, but AT would do this. maybe AQ or 99 that puts you on a draw or bluff. personally i'd rather c/c c/c b/f or something like that depending on turn and river.

TheHammer24 · #7 10-20-2005, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't get it. so we think MP2 has AA/QQ/TT or the King here? reads would be nice, but AT would do this. maybe AQ or 99 that puts you on a draw or bluff. personally i'd rather c/c c/c b/f or something like that depending on turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose AT makes that play, but I don't think it does that often. To 3-Bet the check raiser on a board with two kings says a lot. It usually says your hand is no good.

Specific reads are helpful, even just stats help. There are a lot of LAGS at 1/2 that would play Tx this way, but in a SS game against an unknown, the only reason I'm calling the flop is to save face.