All streets debatable. I think?

surfdoc · #1 12-13-2005, 11:21 PM

Villian in this hand seems typical loose passive. I have him at 50/4/.6 after about 50 hands. I disagreed a bit with another 2+2er so other views will be helpful.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Is this an easy raise here even OOP vs this guy?

Flop: (2.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, CO calls.

After my preflop check. Is this a bet? How is the CR here?

Turn: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises.

Hmmm. Lots of flop action against a passive and he is still raising. Standard calldown yes? Anyone find a fold? Anyone find a 3bet? How about if another heart hits on the river?

Entity · #2 12-13-2005, 11:27 PM

I'm calling down. Boring, I know.

I also bet this flop but that's because I bet a ton of K-high flops against openlimpers.

Rob

TStoneMBD · #3 12-13-2005, 11:27 PM

id probably raise preflop but checking is ok.

i dont checkraise this flop since hell check behind alot and its draw heavy but once you do that i think the cap is perfect. a smoothcall turn checkraise is probably better though and thats usually the line i take unless i think he might take a free card, but these players never do.

after the turn comes and he raises your bet you have to call. you do realize youre drawing to a boat with a 9 high flush redraw right? if a heart comes on the river no way am i folding my 9 high flush.

Spicymoose · #4 12-13-2005, 11:37 PM

So you are folding the river UI against what we think may be a LP (after 50 hands)?

surfdoc · #5 12-13-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
id probably raise preflop but checking is ok.

i dont checkraise this flop since hell check behind alot and its draw heavy but once you do that i think the cap is perfect. a smoothcall turn checkraise is probably better though and thats usually the line i take unless i think he might take a free card, but these players never do.

after the turn comes and he raises your bet you have to call. you do realize youre drawing to a boat with a 9 high flush redraw right? if a heart comes on the river no way am i folding my 9 high flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said you don't CR the flop. Do you lead it? I just can't stomach him folding here on the flop when I have a relative monster. My feeling is that even the loose passives bet this in an unraised pot HU vs the big blind. Then he will get offended and just call all the way because thats what he does. But then he raised. Ugh.

TStoneMBD · #6 12-13-2005, 11:39 PM

yes i lead but you should trust your instincts. if you think hell bet for you when he would have folded to your flop bet and hell call down after you checkraise then checkraise for sure. thats a pretty strange read though but i know what you mean.

im not folding the river unimproved.

mike l. · #7 12-14-2005, 06:27 AM

"Hmmm. Lots of flop action against a passive and he is still raising."

im deciding at that moment that 50 hands is not enough to know anything and calling down. maybe he has 98 or a weirdly played AA or something.

smacksoup · #8 12-14-2005, 07:16 AM

i call the flop three-bet planning to checkraise the turn. 50 hands is not close to enough to know whether he'll only take this aggro line with a set (the only flopped hand that beats you). given the way you played it, call the turn c/r and c/c river UI.

#9 12-14-2005, 10:18 AM

You say all streets debatable, but we don't know about the river.

With only 50 hands, I concur. Call the turn, and showdown a non-heart river.

danzasmack · #10 12-14-2005, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You say all streets debatable, but we don't know about the river.

With only 50 hands, I concur. Call the turn, and showdown a non-heart river.

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't know the river because he wants unbiased action on the turn.

You definatly can't fold here, but I think a raise would be spewing, so i call.

I show this hand down. Even on a heart river.