KJs HU OOP on turn and river

Aaron W. · #1 06-13-2005, 01:37 PM

Nothing solid yet on villain. He seems a little loose, a little aggressive, but it's far too early to be putting large amounts of faith in those reads.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ...

What do you consider in this spot?

shadow29 · #2 06-13-2005, 01:40 PM

Your bet is fine on the turn. You have folding equity, a gutshot and I think that you would have heard from an A on the flop. Maybe he's scared of his kicker, but your turn bet is fine.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say c/r the river. It might be a little too advanced for 1/2. If it is let me know.

edit- now that i think about it im not sure this line would be best. ill mull some more.

Aaron W. · #3 06-13-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your bet is fine on the turn. You have folding equity, a gutshot and I think that you would have heard from an A on the flop. Maybe he's scared of his kicker, but your turn bet is fine.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say c/r the river. It might be a little too advanced for 1/2. If it is let me know.

edit- now that i think about it im not sure this line would be best. ill mull some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

The check-raise thought didn't occur to me at the time, but it certainly has some intrigue. There was a post in SS that advocates this play in a similar circumstance. I didn't intend to mimic that hand at all with this one. I don't know how the aggressiveness of those games (generically) compares to the 1/2 weak-tight Paradise games I find, but it's a good play against someone aggressive enough to bluff or value bet a pair, but is tight enough to not want to pay off a river check-raise with such a hand. It's certainly an option to consider (I hardly ever go for river check-raises).

mmbt0ne · #4 06-13-2005, 02:46 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say c/r the river. It might be a little too advanced for 1/2. If it is let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

GoT wanna-be [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Villian seems a little loose, and a little aggressive. Hmmmm. This is a tough one.

Betting the river can't be right, because he's almost certainly not calling with any hand you beat, and he's not folding any hand you're behind after coming this far.

So, we check the river. I think he'll check behind a fair number of hands that beat us. Most notably small-mid pocket pairs. There were no draws on the flop except a super ghetto-fab gutshot straight draw, and if he has a 2 or a 4, he almost certainly has a pair of them unless he's a total donkey.

Check-calling is bad I think, because we will only beat a bluff, and I don't think villian is going to bluff this river very often. Sure, he may think he's bluffing, but those pair of 6s are probably good.

Check-raising brings a new little dynamic into it. When he's bluffing he will fold to the checkraise. However, there is no bluffing hand he can have that beats us, so it's really no advantage to us. Especially when you consider that he's going to call with hands that beat us. The question becomes, will he bet a small pair (either pockets, or 3s/5s) and then be willing to fold it to a check-raise. Honestly, I don't think most 1/2 villians are going to bet here often enough for the check-raise to be worthwhile, because I don't think many of them are capable of folding a better hand to it

Check-folding is the only option left. I think that's the best play.

DeathDonkey · #5 06-13-2005, 03:02 PM

I totally agree with mmbt0ne. I would have played the other streets the same FWIW.

-DeathDonkey

SteveL91 · #6 06-13-2005, 01:41 PM

I generally run through the possible hands I think he'd limp with in that position, then compare those hands to the flop texture and see if there are any likely draws. Going off your info, I don't think he's folding the river for another bet, but these situations are a definite weakness of mine.

handsome · #7 06-13-2005, 02:09 PM

I dunno about that turn.
Bet and fold to a raise.

Fantam · #8 06-13-2005, 02:10 PM

So if UTG+1 is a little bit loose, what will he be calling on the flop and turn with?

I would imagine something like a small to medium pocket pair,Ax, middle or bottom pair. I doubt that he would have anything better, otherwise he would probably have raised the flop, particularly if he is a little bit agressive.

I think UTG would have to be extremely loose if he only had Tx or worse.

So I think that most times you are beaten on the river.

Normally I would say that you should check on the river so as not to value bet UTG's marginal hands which beat you for him, as he will probably call if he is an agressive player.

However as UTG has only called the whole way. And with the 2nd A falling on the river, a bluff bet on the end is probably your best chance of picking up the pot, as UTG may fear that you have AK or AQ and fold.

If UTG then 3-bets the river, I think you should fold as now you are almost certainly beaten.

karitek · #9 06-13-2005, 02:14 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't like the flop bet at all. You only have a BDFD and a BDSD. You are behind to any Ax - which LAGs love to play.

What do you put UTG+1 on when he calls? He's probably not on a draw since the board is rainbow. He could have 22 or 44, but i think those aren't that likely.

So fold the flop. Definitely fold the turn. But since you did neither, you have to bet out that river and fold to a raise.

Redd · #10 06-13-2005, 02:16 PM

I'm intrigued by the flop play. Do you think both opponents will fold more than 1 time in 6 here?